Chrétien to step down

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
I am an Albertan, I lived throught it, and will bring it up when I like. Mind you I will not act like an idiot they you two do when it is dicussed.

An Albertan is someone who lives in Alberta -- Ontario != Alberta.

I realize not all people were hit by the NEP as bad as others (you obviously were not), but you should still have some common sense since you know how the people here react to it.

I am an Albertan, you do not see me acting like the government propaganda puppet.

No, you are not an Albertan, and no, you don't act like a government propaganda puppet -- you're a lunatic fringe anti-female who puts on this facade of someone advocating equal rights for everyone.

At not time do I believe it was done to punish Albertans, as you would have us believe.

I never said ANY such thing, in fact if you'll look up I said I'm sure Trudeau thought it was honestly good for Canada. The fact remains it was a huge economic and political blunder for him and the Liberals, regardless of intentions.

It was not soley responsible for the economy at the time. This is all just weak minded drivel from a few weak minded Albertans.

Actually, it's coming straight from you. No one here has said it was soley responsible for the economy at the time, it was just soley responsible for making a bad situation 10 times worse. As quotes provided by NYE of economics professors and associations (who know slightly more about this than you do) have shown.

Yes remember everyone when Asher losses a debate, the victor then becomes semi-coherent and rambling and a lier.

Actually you're always semi-coherent (if we're lucky), and you haven't won a thing. All of your "facts" were shot down by NYE and you responded with one-liners about how NYE should stick to one liners after. Very classic, btw, and it put a smile on my face.

Proven wrong, where? your a joke really you are.
Care to prove your moronic trolling NYE does not seem to have the *uts to do it.

Oh come on, blackice, you're a moron who thinks everyone else is dumber than you. That's the truth. You went and found the fastest growing small town in Alberta with the lowest vacancy rates and highest rent, assumed a minimum wage worker wanted to rent a 4-bedroom apartment, and actually tried to use it in an argument about how Alberta is evil and doesn't care about poor people.

I'm not sure just how stupid that looks to anyone reading it.

"Flake" is right, but you're misdirecting that comment.

[blackice]

An Albertan is someone who lives in Alberta -- Ontario != Alberta.

Yes Asher, I have lived there longer than you have been alive. Go Girl you tell me what it is!

I realize not all people were hit by the NEP as bad as others (you obviously were not), but you should still have some common sense since you know how the people here react to it.

I was hit so was everyone out east HELLO EARTH TO ASHER...

common sense

You call acting like the two of you common sense. that explains a lot. No the fools who believe the government propaganda are just that fools.

No, you are not an Albertan,

Sure am Canadian too and proud of it, unlike some ungrateful spoiled brats.

and no, you don't act like a government propaganda puppet

Nope try it just takes a little reading...

you're a lunatic fringe anti-female who puts on this facade of someone advocating equal rights for everyone.

See you do get use out of that book...How many time have you read it?

As quotes provided by NYE

Oh ya that rag you two claim to be the god all to end all of informative reading. Weak really.

" were shot down by NYE

They were? the unintellegent one-liner did not even get his facts right. Nothing was shot down he just looked more stupid than he already does. You you bought it. What doe that say for you?

Oh come on, blackice, you're a moron who thinks everyone else is dumber than you

No i point out the dumb things people believe, like you for instance.

You went and found the fastest growing small town in Alberta with the lowest vacancy rates and highest rent, assumed a minimum wage worker wanted to rent a 4-bedroom apartment, and actually tried to use it in an argument about how Alberta is evil and doesn't care about poor people

Your minimum wage is lower than here and your rent is as high. That article is old. CBC did a special on it not to long back did you watch it? Half of Canada did. Do you know how much of an idiot you like like now? You just have to do some research, ahh I bet you did that is why you are not posting anything to back your opinion.

Here try this one, I could go all night, http://www.calgaryunitedway.org/agencies/agencies6.html

This Is Calgary:

Highest average rent of any city in Canada.
Average one-bedroom apartment: over $600
Average two-bedroom apartment: almost $750
For a person working full time at minimum wage, rent would have to in the $315 range to be affordable (estimating 30 percent of income as an affordable amount to pay for shelter).

One in five Calgarians lives in a low-income household (20.6 percent).
Specific population groups suffer particularly high rates of poverty compared to Calgary's average.
The incidence of poverty among children, youth and the elderly is comparatively high:
25% of young people in Calgary live in poverty - 40,000 children and 30,000 youth.
Almost 30% of people over the age of 75 live in poverty.

Yup you guys sure own that one. Again for bragging about all that you do why is one kid there poor? Klien of course.

You were saying Asher, er flake.

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
Yes Asher, I have lived there longer than you have been alive. Go Girl you tell me what it is!

That's not the point, the fact that you don't live here now means you're not an Albertan. That's just how it works.

I was hit so was everyone out east HELLO EARTH TO ASHER...

People out "east" were not hit by the NEP *NEARLY* as bad as the West.

Sure am Canadian too and proud of it, unlike some ungrateful spoiled brats.

You are NOT Albertan. Albertans are people who RESIDE IN ALBERTA, and who can vote in PROVINCIAL ELECTIONS IN ALBERTA. You live in Ontario, not Alberta, you are not an Albertan, you used to be years ago.

See you do get use out of that book...How many time have you read it?

The book is about lying with statistics, just how is me calling you an anti-female fringe element have anything to do with that?

Oh ya that rag you two claim to be the god all to end all of informative reading. Weak really.

So you would consider an association full of dozens of PhDs in economics to be "weak" when they talk about economics? Rather you resort to your own anecdotal evidence as a former BASF glue-sniffing executive and said it didn't do much bad for the West?

They were? the unintellegent one-liner did not even get his facts right.

He certainly did. In fact he used your own sources against you, because you were selectively quoting to mislead people. Like taking a couple small towns in Alberta with above average poverty rates and comparing this to a national average, when in reality the overall poverty rate in Alberta is 1% below the national average...

You were shot down, and pretty badly, and you don't even know it.

Your minimum wage is lower than here and your rent is as high.

You're changing your tune. The fact is you deliberately used outrageous statistics from an older article to mislead everyone, and you were busted.

The minimum wage here IS lower, but so is the consumer price index and taxes, and our unemployment is also lower. I don't see why you're crying bloody murder that people are poor -- some people are poor, that's just how it is in a capitalist society.

That article is old. CBC did a special on it not to long back did you watch it? Half of Canada did. Do you know how much of an idiot you like like now? You just have to do some research, ahh I bet you did that is why you are not posting anything to back your opinion.

HAH! The article was one YOU CITED, blackice.
You linked to it, I read it, and I laughed and shot down your pathetic attempts to mislead everyone.

This Is Calgary:

Yup you guys sure own that one. Again for bragging about all that you do why is one kid there poor? Klien of course.

You were saying Asher, er flake.

blackice, do you understand what happens when your city is the fastest growing large city in Canada? You do have higher rent during the period of extreme growth. It's not a problem with Alberta, it's a problem with not being able to keep up with the record influx of new people which results in higher rent.

I'm through with you, this is so beyond hopeless and you honestly believe all of this crap you're spewing. Whatever, people have a right to believe what they want, regardless of how wildly inaccurate and misleading it is.

[blackice]

9/12/01 Some homeless families are sleeping in tents because of Red Deer’s high rents and low vacancies, says an affordable housing advocate.
Patricia Turnbull, acting executive-director of the Red Deer Housing Society, said she knows of two families with three children each - one led by a single dad and one by a single mom - who are camping out with heaters this fall because they can’t find affordable apartments.
Even though overnight temperatures have fallen near zero, a third family in a similar situation was tenting until recently at the Burbank campground near Blackfalds.

Reddeer asher

The cost of living in Edmonton is very high.

UOfA Student information for foriegn workers.

I do not feel I need to provide links, you know why Asher because you read it in the papers there everyday. It is the same in Ontario because Harris did what Klien did. You read that book well Asher

[Asher]

Red Deer is also booming, blackice. In fact nearly every city in Alberta is experiencing record growth, which is why rent is high, it has absolutely nothing to do with Klein.

BTW, if you know so much about this, how come you repeatedly spell Klein's name wrong?

[blackice]

That's not the point, the fact that you don't live here now means you're not an Albertan. That's just how it works

Most canadians would disagree with you totally as I do.

People out "east" were not hit by the NEP *NEARLY* as bad as the West.

You have said this twice now and each time I ask you to back it up *link* please. This is just an opinion of yours and it's not correct.

You are NOT Albertan. Albertans are people who RESIDE IN ALBERTA, and who can vote in PROVINCIAL ELECTIONS IN ALBERTA. You live in Ontario, not Alberta, you are not an Albertan, you used to be years ago.

I am from Alberta and I am an Albertan.

The book is about lying with statistics, just how is me calling you an anti-female fringe element have anything to do with that?

You know the book well I see. How many people have told you including me I am not anti-female, that is just getting old Asher grow up.

glue-sniffing

You have said this twice now, I have never sniffed glue. i have better links and provided better information than a rag newspaper woth an Alberta slant. Give it up it is weak Asher.

He certainly did. In fact he used your own sources against you, because you were selectively quoting to mislead people. Like taking a couple small towns in Alberta with above average poverty rates and comparing this to a national average, when in reality the overall poverty rate in Alberta is 1% below the national average...

You were shot down, and pretty badly, and you don't even know it.

You are such a moron, the whole point is Asher you are by far the richest province and have a higher poverty rate than BC. He proved nothing eccept he can not read. You prroved your as big an idiot as him.

You're changing your tune. The fact is you deliberately used outrageous statistics from an older article to mislead everyone, and you were busted.

Busted what an idiot take the two bed room and the skyhigh cost of living up there now do that with minimum wage. The only thing busted here is your ego.

The minimum wage here IS lower, but so is the consumer price index and taxes, and our unemployment is also lower. I don't see why you're crying bloody murder that people are poor -- some people are poor, that's just how it is in a capitalist society.

Not according to any information any where but in your head.

You linked to it, I read it, and I laughed and shot down your pathetic attempts to mislead everyone.

Delusion and denial you have a grasp of those for sure.

I'm through with you, this is so beyond hopeless and you honestly believe all of this crap you're spewing. Whatever, people have a right to believe what they want, regardless of how wildly inaccurate and misleading it is.

The facts are the facts you look like an idiot, I admire you are cutting your losses. Save face boy, you can not provide any links or information just your opinion. You know why because it does not exsist. There is no information to back your dellusions.

[Asher]

This is like watching a lab rat continually choosing the food that delivers an electric shock...

Seriously blackice, this joke is getting old now, you can start being serious any time.

If you're going to be so silly, why don't you start blaming Klein for the murder rate in Vancouver, or perhaps even blaming him for the "10000 deaths a year due to pollution" in Ontario? You could even go and call him a little munchkin or something, anything is funnier and probably more relevant than what you're trying to pull here.

Apolyton is too smart for your crap, if you seriously believe that, why don't you try telling people that somewhere else where they might be stupid enough to buy it?

My favorite part of this whole argument is when you asked for a link for proof that the East wasn't hit as hard as the West with the NEP.
Or maybe how you dismiss the opinion of dozens of PhDs in economics in an economic issue because the newspaper who reported it is from the West.
Or how you tried to blame the low vacancy rate/high rent rates on Klein.
Gosh, there's just so much to choose from with you.

[blackice]

Red Deer is also booming, blackice. In fact nearly every city in Alberta is experiencing record growth, which is why rent is high, it has absolutely nothing to do with Klein.

Yes Asher that's what it said low wages, minimum wages and high rents, cost of living. Your denial is showing again, popped the little boys bubble about the god province Alberta with a *uckhead for a leader.

I see your reading skills have not improved.

BTW, if you know so much about this, how come you repeatedly spell Klein's name wrong?

It's intentional, nothing more insulting then spelling someone's name wrong. I can not post what I really call him.

[Asher]

People who are poor tend to suffer from low wages, blackice. It's in fact a fundamental trait of being poor.

Couple this with a booming town with low vanacies and high rent, and you've got yourself perfect fodder for left-wing dribble...

The article mentioned poor people have low wages and are having a hard time finding affordable places to live due to the low vacancy rate and high rent rates, and you're trying to make it sound like everybody makes low wages.

What do you want Klein to do, put a rent cap on housing like the brainchild NDP did in BC?

[blackice]

My favorite part of this whole argument is when you asked for a link for proof that the East wasn't hit as hard as the West with the NEP.

You back peddle well, you can not provide the link because your wrong.
The facts speak for themselves. So does your continued incoherant diatribe, opinions with no proof are just that.
Give it up Asher you lost go back to cutting your losses.:eyesroll:

[Asher]

Why don't you provide a link which says the East was hit as hard as the West due to the NEP, then we'll talk.

[blackice]

People who are poor tend to suffer from low wages, blackice. It's in fact a fundamental trait of being poor.

Duh! so why is the wage so low in a booming economy, oh right greed.

Couple this with a booming town with low vanacies and high rent, and you've got yourself perfect fodder for left-wing dribble...

Yup good planning.

The article mentioned poor people have low wages and are having a hard time finding affordable places to live due to the low vacancy rate and high rent rates, and you're trying to make it sound like everybody makes low wages.

You make it sound like everyone is rich, they are not. In fact look it up Asher the service industry is one of the biggest industries you have going out there. What do you think they make Asher, minimum wage.
You can not live on minimum wage out there. What an idiot.

What do you want Klein to do, put a rent cap on housing like the brainchild NDP did in BC?

Could start with raising the minimum wage. Could also stop starving the poor. I don't know maybe look after the people that he was ellected to do? Not Whinny klien nooo remember he hates the poor.

[blackice]

Why don't you provide a link which says the East was hit as hard as the West due to the NEP, then we'll talk

What a cop out you said it you back it up, lying you do all too well. Pathetic loser come to mind.

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
Duh! so why is the wage so low in a booming economy, oh right greed.

You do realize the economy in Canada is not a command economy, right? It's a mixed market, with leaning tendancies towards the free market. If you don't have job skills in demand, you won't get a very high salary. That's life in this system, if you don't like it, move to Cuba.

You make it sound like everyone is rich, they are not. In fact look it up Asher the service industry is one of the biggest industries you have going out there. What do you think they make Asher, minimum wage.
You can not live on minimum wage out there. What an idiot.

Not everyone here is rich, but more people have more money here than most other provinces. That'd be why Alberta is home to the highest average salaries, you know.

Could start with raising the minimum wage. Could also stop starving the poor. I don't know maybe look after the people that he was ellected to do? Not Whinny klien nooo remember he hates the poor.

Raising the minimum wage would be fine, I think it should be up to $8 anyway to reflect the real world situation. The Real Canadian Superstore is ALWAYS looking for applicants and the starting wage there is $10/hr (but they're unionized), and Safeway is $9.50/hr, and most stores are $8-$9/hr starting.

Minimum wage is there at a minimum, and incase you haven't noticed, unemployment is low in Alberta and growth is high, there is actually talk about shortages of low-paying (<$10) workers in Calgary this summer.

Here's some fun facts for you to deal with:

http://www.gov.ab.ca/acn/200208/12946.html

Other provincial government labour market publications are available and indicate Alberta workers' earnings are on the rise. According to the July 2002 Bargaining Update, unionized workers earned 5.8 per cent more in 2001 than the year before. The largest increases were in the construction industry at 5.6 per cent and health care at 8.8 per cent. Albertans are also earning more each week than the average Canadian. The Alberta Monthly Economic Review indicates Albertans' average earnings in 2001 were $684.10 compared to the national average of $664.90.

But hey, don't let little facts get in the way of your rant about how evil Klein is.
The minimum wage is there, it's VERY rarely actually used as a wage due to the market dynamics. It should be raised though, I agree.

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
What a cop out you said it you back it up, lying you do all too well. Pathetic loser come to mind.

blackice, it's generally accepeted by everyone that The West was hurt far more by the NEP than the East. You're the one saying otherwise, you have to link it.

BTW, here's some more stats for you:

http://www.ab.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/lmi/2001wagesurvey/view-detail-by-region_e.cfm?Region=20&Noc=6622

For a simple grocery store stockboy provincewide the average is $7.97 starting, $11 after 3 years. The overall average wage for grocery store workers in Alberta is $11.01/hour right now.

Or retail: http://www.ab.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/lmi/20...on=20&Noc=6421

Average starting is $9.71, $13 after 3 years, $13.26 average overall for the province.