Chrétien to step down

[Asher]

I realize that you're saying you didn't mean it like that, but to 99% of the people reading it, it looked like you blamed the West solely for it and then said we deserved a thing like the NEP to happen to us later.

Not only is that patently unfair, it's downright offensive to people like notyoueither who lived through the NEP and suffered a great deal due to Trudeau's incredible blunder.

You know damn well how sensitive Albertans are to the NEP, and both you and blackice should have known better not to imply we deserved it or that it was a good thing. Even if you think that, you just shouldn't mention it when you know there's Albertans reading it. Couldn't you predict how they'd respond?

I thought you'd be able to exercise some more thought about it, it seemed like a cheap troll at first, but when you kept going on with it, it can set Albertans off. I thought you'd know that by now.

[Asher]

Oh, and PS, I don't think any amount of protest over the War Measures Act would have prevented trudeau from implementing the NEP years later. The two events just aren't related.

I think Trudeau honestly thought he was doing the country a favor when he implemented it, and some people still evidently believe it was a good thing. I'm not going to bother arguing that right now though.

All of the protesting in the world, particularly from the West, during the War Measures Act situation wouldn't have stopped Trudeau from doing the NEP which he thought would be beneficial to the nation. I'd love to know your logic behind it.

Would you think Trudeau would be so humbled by a bunch of Albertans with picket signs that he'd not do an economic policy years later aimed at helping Canada?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
You know damn well how sensitive Albertans are to the NEP, and both you and blackice should have known better not to imply we deserved it or that it was a good thing. Even if you think that, you just shouldn't mention it when you know there's Albertans reading it. Couldn't you predict how they'd respond?

Come on, are you trying to say that you never post anything that you know might offend someone.

More to the point, why should anyone silence themselves just because the potential reaction from others? This is Apolyton, not a mess dinner.

If Blackice, or anyone else, wants to, he has every right to argue that the NEP was good for the country, even if it hurt the Albertan oil industry. Not only he should challenge prevailing sacred cows.

By the way, from what I can make out of Blackice's comments, he's not saying that it was necessarily good, but rather that it wasn't as bad as some people say, there were other factors affecting the economy and that it happened 20 years ago.

EDIT: If you or NYE want to scream bloody murder about the NEP, go for it. If you want to insult, I couldn't care less, if it is at least done to my face. I'm still amazed that some people haven't figured out that I usually ignore boring insults. But to go into the gutter and then try to claim the high road is a bit much.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Come on, are you trying to say that you never post anything that you know might offend someone.

Oh, definitely not, I regularly do. But that's me, and not you. And your comment isn't an issue of "might offend someone", it was a direct and pointed troll. If you didn't realize that then, perhaps you do now.

More to the point, why should anyone silence themselves just because the potential reaction from others? This is Apolyton, not a mess dinner.

Because it's not your style. Or it wasn't, anyway. The fact that you elaborated on it just severely tainted your reputation as far as I'm concerned.

If Blackice, or anyone else, wants to, he has every right to argue that the NEP was good for the country, even if it hurt the Albertan oil industry. Not only he should challenge prevailing sacred cows.

He has every right to, it doesn't mean it's a good idea to. Especially considering we've already argued about it in previous threads, and it's clear blackice's semi-coherent ramblings won't change the mind of the average Albertan anyway.

EDIT: If you or NYE want to scream bloody murder about the NEP, go for it. If you want to insult, I couldn't care less, if it is at least done to my face. I'm still amazed that some people haven't figured out that I usually ignore boring insults. But to go into the gutter and then try to claim the high road is a bit much.

I don't see NYE claiming the high road either. You severely provoked it, and you got your ass bitten as well as anyone else who participated who backed up your opinion.

That's what happen when you piss someone off sometimes, it happens to the best of us.

Your persistent whining after because somebody dared make fun of you from afar could have been handled better, too. Since you know I don't really care about it, you should have taken a humorous approach or ignored it altogether to make it worth everyone's time.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
You severely provoked it, and you got your ass bitten as well as anyone else who participated who backed up your opinion.

Hold on, let me check. Nope, no bite marks. You and NYE were so busy screaming insults, you rarely made any significant points. Even most of the insults were boring and repetitive.

Originally posted by Asher
Your persistent whining after because somebody dared make fun of you from afar could have been handled better, too.

A couple of posts commenting on your behaviour does not equate to persistent nor whining. I know you thought that it lasted for "weeks," but it actually all took place in a day.

Besides, you did protest too much and seemed unable to stop talking about it until I called a halt to the discussion.

Edit: By the way, those who throw temper tamtrums are never viewed as winners.

[notyoueither]

Aside from the fact that most of your facts are full of crap Tingkai.

[notyoueither]

You are little better than blackice. Actually, a good bit worse.

[Tingkai]

Mellow out, dude.

Edit: man, you're really courting a heart attack. Ya got to learn to relax. This is just Apolyton.

[notyoueither]

Fvck off!

[Seeker]

BTW, during the Western poli sci faculties interviews and polling (for research purposes; also some Hansard stuff) I did actually get the opportunity to talk to a bunch of MPs and MP hopefuls about PR-like electoral reform. (Joe Fontana for one)

A surprisingly large number admit that the current system is flawed and undemocratic (in the sense of not equally representing all citizens rights), however no one was willing to actually propose a bill or even sound anyone else out "it's not the right time politically" "Us Liberals have to stick together" blah blah blah.

[Richelieu]

The problem here is that the west represents a minority in Canada. And minorities are treated as such. If you don't like being a minority in Canada, there is a way to become a majority... you have 3 guesses.

[optimus2861]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I only ask why people from other parts of Canada are so complacent about the sh!t that is flying about the West and Alberta. If this sh!t were flying about Quebec or the Maritimes, or *God forbid* Ontario, I think a number of people from Alberta would have knives out too.

(Shrug) We Maritimers get enough of our own flak from Central/Western Canada that we have to defend against. Don't much have the inclination to try and defend you from yours. I'm hardly an expert on the NEP or Alberta/Ottawa relations, so what's the use of sticking my neck into this crossfire?

Picking on other regions of the country: it's a Canadian thing .

Steering back a bit to the original topic: there was a good editorial piece on CBC Radio this week about how Paul Martin has become all things to all people who want to see Chretien out. To the left, he'll rebuild social programs. To the right, he'll keep the deficit dragon slain. He'll be more accountable, he'll be more open, he'll cut patronage, he'll cut taxes, blah blah blah. He could very well end up being a big-time disappointment if/when he takes office, and have a much shorter reign than what he expects. If the PCs can get their act together (shameless plug: N.B. Premier Bernard Lord is the man for the job), they could be capable of some major inroads in Atlantic/Central Canada again. (The Alliance will never make any gains in Atlantic Canada after Harper's "culture of defeatism" crack )

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Hold on, let me check. Nope, no bite marks. You and NYE were so busy screaming insults, you rarely made any significant points. Even most of the insults were boring and repetitive.

You seem to only be focusing on some angry words from disgruntled Westerners and not the posts with the actual comments which put your pathetic theory to shame.

A couple of posts commenting on your behaviour does not equate to persistent nor whining. I know you thought that it lasted for "weeks," but it actually all took place in a day.

Well that's odd, because the timestamp on your posts are spread out on the issue over a period of 4 days.
That's persistent to me, and it's also whining when you don't like people making fun of your silly comments.

Edit: By the way, those who throw temper tamtrums are never viewed as winners.

Nobody here has thrown a temper tantrum. Unlesss you've got some kind of skewed definition. nye is pissed off and I get pissed off a lot, and they're not polite accordingly, but that's not a temper tantrum.

What I will note is that blackice has tried to prove several points using misleading information (usually statistics), which have been proven wrong every single time, yet he kept persisting in pulling that crap. Meanwhile you've now managed to avoid the issues for the most part either because you know you're full of it and want to do some damage control or you were just trolling earlier for fun anyway.

You trolled, they bit, and now you're sitting here accusing other people of taking the low road because they bit your stupid little troll.

The problem here is that the west represents a minority in Canada. And minorities are treated as such. If you don't like being a minority in Canada, there is a way to become a majority... you have 3 guesses.

In most places minorities are still treated with respect and equal rights, which is more than what can be said with the federal government's history with Alberta.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Richelieu
there is a way to become a majority... you have 3 guesses.

Make like bunnies?

[blackice]

Tip #1, Tingkai: Never bring up the NEP in the presense of an Albertan, particularly when they lived through the whole thing.
Asher

I am an Albertan, I lived throught it, and will bring it up when I like. Mind you I will not act like an idiot the way you two do when it is dicussed.

Originally posted by Asher
You know damn well how sensitive Albertans are to the NEP, and both you and blackice should have known better not to imply we deserved it or that it was a good thing. Even if you think that, you just shouldn't mention it when you know there's Albertans reading it. Couldn't you predict how they'd respond?

I am an Albertan, I lived through it you do not see me acting like the government propaganda puppet. I see the reason it was done. At no time do I believe it was done to punish Albertans, as you would have us believe. It was not soley responsible for the economy at the time. This is all just weak minded drivel from a few weak minded Albertans.

blackice's semi-coherent ramblings won't change the mind of the average Albertan anyway.

Yes remember everyone when Asher losses a debate, the victor then becomes semi-coherent and rambling and a lier. You will note niether NME or Asher prove anything they say you are lying about.

They just repeat it over and over in hopes to bury the information. They think people here are stupid to the point they will not go back and read. Just believe thier semi-coherent ramblings

BTW, blackice, I see you've read this book

Asher no but considering you have, explains a lot about your post's.

What I will note is that blackice has tried to prove several points using misleading information (usually statistics), which have been proven wrong every single time, yet he kept persisting in pulling that crap.

Proven wrong, where? your a joke really you are.
Care to prove your moronic trolling NYE does not seem to have the *uts to do it. Beside it would take himover one line. Lets not stress him to much.

Aside from the fact that most of your facts are full of crap Tingkai.

Don't you like how notintellegenteither post's one liners of your lying, and facts are full of crap. He never backs it up, never offers proof of his opinion. He then thinks it makes him look intellengent and right. What a flake.