Who made the pyramids. They must have been smarter than us!

[Robert]

Bas: how can I be ilogic if I don't make any claims?

but anyway, why couldn't the people have dragged stones several kilometres?

because they weight tons.....
Some stones must have been moved over 300 kilometres...... (not the pyramid stones)

Have you heard of the Nile? Barges Wheels? Carts? Carts with wheels? Slaves?

move those heavy stones over the Nile?
You need pretty good ships to do that!

Satisfied?

no, since that was the first answer that popped into my mind to. But it doesn't satisfy me.
At least, the Egytpian part does, but the 'not smarter than us' part doesn't.

[Bas]

CS: Like I said, because you keep on making the same arguments without even trying to refute the other explanations.

And ships are actually probably the best way of transporting those stones, and yes, you do need good ships, but I don't doubt that the Egyptians had good ships. The Nile was the most important transport route for them, after all. Other methods, like JohnT and I said, would work as well. Not very fast and very easily, mind you, but it would work. And if you don't think that's sufficient, why shouldn't it work?

[Boris Godunov]

CS: Are you seven years old or something? That post to Bas was really uncalled for and immature. Grow the hell up.

The pyramids aren't mystical feats of advanced technology. We know how they were built, and if we really wanted to, we could pretty easily duplicate them. The resources and manpower involved just make it a silly undertaking in this day and age. The mathematics behind them is nothing more than pretty simple geometry.

The Egyptians weren't stupid, nor were they smarter than us. They just chose to use their resources and manpower to build these massive tombstones. Instead, we build office blocks and condos. The math and technology used to build the Sydney Opera House or the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel is exponentially more complex than that used for the pyramids.

The pyramids are terrific monuments, very awe-inspiring for their sheer size and staying power. But advanced technology or the result of super intelligence? Not in the slightest.

[Bas]

BTW, you still haven't made clear why you think that the builders of the pyramids were smarter than we are. Do you actually believe that the correlations that you've mentioned in some of your posts were intentional or not?

[JohnT]

Originally posted by CyberShy
- The city Tiahuanaca in the Andes, South America, has buildings with stones with a weight of 60tons, placed on 100tons weighting standstone blocks. The stones seem to be polished with a huge plane.
These stones appear to be created in the stonepit of Tiahuanacu, 350 km away!!

- The old city Ollantaytambo in Peru contains some 3,5-5 meters height stones, which were created in a stonepit 11 km from the place they are right now.

- The fort fort van Sacsehuaman in Peru is surrounded by a 20 meters high wall, containing some stones heavier than 200ton! From a piece a granite, height 11 meters, width 18 meters that seems to be cutted out of the rock, a perfect squared piece was cutted out of it.

- In Chili, on the height of El Enladrillado, 233 stones size 5 by 7 and 5 by 10 meters are arranged like an amphitheatre. The stones are very polished. The stones must have come from the valley, since there's no natural stone source on the height.

- In Costa Rica, in the jungle, perfect balls were found with a diameter of 2,5 meters. The weight of the heaviest one is 16 ton. There has been found no place where these balls could be created. Pherhaps these balls are scale-models of the planets in our solar system.

- North, in the living area of the Olmeken are giant heads, some have a diameter of 5,5 meters. The local people have tried to move them, but never succeeded. To not even talk about transporting them. The heads do not look alike the race of the current civilians.

You know, Cyber, this post (by you) should really answer all your questions:

Moving heavy stones was not only possible but common.

[Boris Godunov]

When you have a labor force of hundreds of thousands at your disposal, it's not only common, it's relatively easy.

[Tolls]

"move those heavy stones over the Nile?
You need pretty good ships to do that! "

We have excavated Egyptian barges from the time of the Great Pyramid's contruction which would have been quite capable of transporting at least one of the big 200 ton blocks.

In fact this ties in quite well with Ugaritic texts from about the same time which show that wood from Syria was being traded to Egypt...which was what these boats were made out of.

"The math and technology used to build the Sydney Opera House or the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel is exponentially more complex than that used for the pyramids. "

Quite...I mean, these people hadn't even figured out the arch! All they could do is stack blocks together. Big, yes...complicated? No.

If you want impressive, then how about the engineering effort involved in moving Abu Simbel in the 60s...now THAT's impressive.

http://daphne.palomar.edu/mhudelson/WorksofArt/02Egyptian/4208.html

By the way, for people who have done the Egypt thing Cheops and the Sphinx are the least impressive monuments, when compared with Luxor and Abu Simbel.

[JohnT]

[threadjack]

Boris, what do you think of Mozart?

[/threadjack]

[Gary]

Just a question. Has anyone who has faith that building a pyramid is a achievable task for the ancient Egyptians actually succeeded in putting their theories to the test and creating one ? Or is it all based on faith ? Getting them top layers in must have required some ingenuity.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Gary
Just a question. Has anyone who has faith that building a pyramid is a achievable task for the ancient Egyptians actually succeeded in putting their theories to the test and creating one ? Or is it all based on faith ? Getting them top layers in must have required some ingenuity.

In 1995, a groups of scientists and engineers built a replica 1/10 the size of the Great Pyramid. They only used primitive tools and several hundred Egyptian volunteers. The project was completed after 3 weeks. So biggest problem they faced was not moving heavy stones and carrying them up the pyramid, but how to setting the headstone of the pyramid.

There is also a new science called Experimental Archeology that has gained favor in last few years. Instead of theorizing and fantasizing about building something, archeologists would work together with civil engineers and architects to actually build the monument. Other examples include sections of Roman Amphitheaters, moving and errecting unfinished statues on Eastern Island, and painting more drawings on the Nazca plain.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Gary
Just a question. Has anyone who has faith that building a pyramid is a achievable task for the ancient Egyptians actually succeeded in putting their theories to the test and creating one ? Or is it all based on faith ? Getting them top layers in must have required some ingenuity.

Faith, and a pretty good understanding of basic geometry and physics.

As for the top layers, it took building huge ramps that they used to push the top blocks up with. Huge endeavor? Sure. Impressive feat? Maybe. Ingenius and smarter than anything we do? Not remotely.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by JohnT
[threadjack]

Boris, what do you think of Mozart?

[/threadjack]

His operas are great (even the ones with terrible plots, like Idomeneo, Seraglio and Cosi fan Tutti are saved by stellar music), as are his later symphonies. His chamber works and other orchestral works can vary from tediously boring to great, it depends on how much of his heart was in it for that particular work.

He's not my favorite, but I certainly love many of his works (Don Giovanni, Le Nozze di Figaro, and Die Zauberflote are enough to secure him a spot near the top of the list).

Um, resume pyramidal discussion...

[Gary]

That 1/10 size thing sounds interesting. Any links / reports ?

As for the ramp. Hmmm. That sounds at least as difficult as the pyramid itself. All that material. Not so sure about that one.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Gary
That 1/10 size thing sounds interesting. Any links / reports ?

As for the ramp. Hmmm. That sounds at least as difficult as the pyramid itself. All that material. Not so sure about that one.

History Channel once showed several programs about Experimental Archeology. Building the 1/10 replica of the pyramid was one of them. Sometimes it's amazing to see what only a dozen people can accomplish.

I also saw the same story in another book called "Ancient Mysteries".

Unfortunately, I don't have a link yet.

[Dan Severn]

Pyramids are common in the ancient world exactly because they are so easy to build. If you want a monument to make an impact, it must be tall. Towers are very complicated, and prone to collapse. Monolithic structures are limited by the size of the stone. Pyramids, however, are stable, durable, and simple. Furthermore, they can be built to incredible sizes because the weight of the stones above is supported by a larger number of stones below.