Why is homosexuality "wrong"

[moomin]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
How about those in-your-face, breast-bearing and penis-showing heterosexuals at Mardi Gras parades?

I think that's tasteless and disgusting as well.

I think it's pretty even-handed.

Oh yes. In New Orleans, that is. Don't know if they do tasteless hetro parades anywhere else. Tasteless homo parades, now...

[loinburger]

Originally posted by paiktis22
One thing that's rather annoying though is that sometimes everything gets turned to being about homosexuality.

One-trick ponies are just annoying in general, whether the poster has an obsession with homosexuality, natural rights, atheism/christianity, american-bashing/euro-bashing, etc.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Boddington's
Animals can behave unnaturally as well.

If the action of any non-human is automatically defined as natural, by your reasoning, homosexuality is quite natural, and thus, you have contradicted yourself.

And sheesh, some of you fill me with annoyance over your treatment of this issue, and even Boris's line of reasoning on this issue looks too much like apologism to me. What is the big problem? It isn't a choice, it is the way people are. And a lot of you are speaking from a position of harshly enforced social convention? I think it is high-time society had a far more open model on sexuality, not this pigeonholed system that currently exists. As Iain said in one of his former signatures, 'we are all bisexual' or should have the option/capacity to be so depending on our own desires, not following arbitrary christian ethics.

It is the affection between two people that matters, regardless of their sex(uality). It certainly beats war, murder, bigotry and hatred

[Solly]

"If the action of any non-human is automatically defined as natural, by your reasoning, homosexuality is quite natural, and thus, you have contradicted yourself"

An animal doing a certain thing doesn't make it natural.

[Solly]

Still, I think it was Rogan that said that there does need to be some debate about most people's unspoken assumption that "natural = good, right".

Unnatural behaviour is not necessarily wrong.

[Provost Harrison]

But it's obviously natural by definition; it is not incited or devised by mankind. Therefore it is natural.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by loinburger
I do a double-take when I see PDA's from homosexuals, but that's just because I'm not really used to seeing them (while I am used to seeing PDA's from heterosexuals).

So do I, actually...I'm just not used to being in a place where people can do that so freely. But it makes me feel good to see it.

I think that's tasteless and disgusting as well.

Fine, but as long as you acknowledge that homosexuals are no more inclined to partake in such behavior than heterosexuals, that's the point. I'm guessing you haven't really been to a gay pride parade, though, since the vast majority of the floats and marchers are not "tasteless and disgusting." It is only a few who go to the extreme.

and even Boris's line of reasoning on this issue looks too much like apologism to me.

Which line of reasoning was that, Provost?

I don't think I could ever be considered an apologist.

[moomin]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Fine, but as long as you acknowledge that homosexuals are no more inclined to partake in such behavior than heterosexuals, that's the point.

Statistics sure don't support that claim, Boris.

I'm guessing you haven't really been to a gay pride parade, though,

I've been to two, out of curiosity, before I decided I didn't need that sort of behaviour displayed in order to fulfill my life.

Then I once sat a hour or so idly staring out of my car window at the passing parade once. But I don't hold that against them, I hold it against the morons that allow parades and marches of any sort to disrupt urban traffic.

since the vast majority of the floats
and marchers are not "tasteless and disgusting." It is only a few who go to the extreme.

Newsflash: everyone get's judged by what extremes they allow to represent them. Gay parades, of course, are no exception to this rule.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by moominparatrooper
Statistics sure don't support that claim, Boris.

What statistics? Where? Show them. Calling your bluff.

Newsflash: everyone get's judged by what extremes they allow to represent them. Gay parades, of course, are no exception to this rule.

Newsflash: No matter how often that may happen, it will always be the fault of those who are judging based on the extremes, not those who are being unfairly judged. I don't judge groups by their extremists, or else I'd be happy to say you're just like Fred Phelps and Jerry Falwell.

[Asher]

Boddington, I think it's fairly obvious why you're so uneasy with two men showing affection.

[Boris Godunov]

No, he's not one of us! We won't have him!

[moomin]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
What statistics? Where? Show them. Calling your bluff.

You question the fact that there are like three orders of magnitude more gay parades in the world than the mardi gras in New Orleans?

Newsflash: No matter how often that may happen, it will always be the fault of those who are judging based on the extremes, not those who are being unfairly judged.

That would indeed depend on whether they are judged unfairly or not. I see no problem with judging people by whom they let represent themselves.

I don't judge groups by their extremists, or else I'd be happy to say you're just like Fred Phelps and Jerry Falwell.

Would you, now? What group do you imagine I belong to that could be said to be represented by those two gentlemen?

[Faeelin]

So, to play devil's advocate, you would say that all blacks are a bunch of lazy whiners who don't care about getting ahead in life because of Jesse jackson or rappers?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by moominparatrooper
You question the fact that there are like three orders of magnitude more gay parades in the world than the mardi gras in New Orleans?

More cities than New Orleans hold Mardi Gras parades, and regardless I guarantee you I can find tenfold photographic and other evidence of lewd public heterosexual behavior, whether in the context of a parade or not. But statistics are hard numbers, which you claimed to have...

That would indeed depend on whether they are judged unfairly or not. I see no problem with judging people by whom they let represent themselves.

Which is why I mentioned I should have no problem judging you based on Falwell or Phelps. Or Hitler, for that matter.

Would you, now? What group do you imagine I belong to that could be said to be represented by those two gentlemen?

No, I wouldn't which is my point. But the group would be, um, heterosexuals? At least, they and you all claim to be.

[Boris Godunov]

Oh, and as for "I see no problem with judging people by whom they let represent themselves."

Since when were gays "letting them represent themselves?" Not at all. You can't see the difference between being tolerant of people, even those who are more extreme than you are, and "letting them represent you?" They're not representing anything, they're just being given the freedom--like anyone in the parade--to express themselves as they want. The vast majority choose not to express themselves that way. Anyone who assumes it's about "representing" anything is making an erroneous assumption.