New Threat to Arafat - Proletariat rising?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Fez, the camp David offer was nothing more than an insult. It actually offered LESS than was already agreed on in the Oslo accords.

Hahaha... hahaha... hahaha... Sorry... I just have to laugh at this terribly stupid remark. It offered more. Infact part of Jerusalem if I am not mistaken.

And you just fell victim to the biggest political lie since Hitler claimd that the jews caused the treaty of versaille.

GET A LIFE.

[CyberGnu]

Terribly stupid? I refer to it as literate. Look it up if you don't believe me.

[DanS]

" Suicide bombings or murdering Israeli civilians may have satisfied the primitive human instinct of vengence, but they generally hurt more rational goals such as nationhood, economic prosperity, and the peace."

I agree. The rock throwing teenagers were a much more effective symbol.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Terribly stupid? I refer to it as literate. Look it up if you don't believe me.

It is stupid when you don't know what you are talking about...

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DanS
" Suicide bombings or murdering Israeli civilians may have satisfied the primitive human instinct of vengence, but they generally hurt more rational goals such as nationhood, economic prosperity, and the peace."

I agree. The rock throwing teenagers were a much more effective symbol.

Israel made rock-throwing almost as dangerous as picking up a gun in 2000...

[The Mad Monk]

I heard couple in interesting things about Clinton's final offer on the radio, but haven't been able to confirm it online. Apparently, offer included:

-NATO membership for Israel
-Fifteen billion (that's with a 'b', folks) dollars given to Israel to re-locate settlers out of the disputed territories
-Twenty billion (note the 'b') dollars to the Palestinian authority, to to build infrastructure and put the economy back on its feet.

If that's true, how much money would that have been for each Palestinian?

[KrazyHorse]

A lot. Too much to be believable, actually. 7000$

[KrazyHorse]

And Clinton can't offer unilateral NATO acceptance to the Israelis; he'd have serious trouble getting that past a majority of member countries.

[CyberGnu]

From:
The Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip
Washington, D.C.
(September 28, 1995)

ARTICLE XI
Land
The two sides view the West Bank and the Gaza Strip as a single territorial unit, the integrity and status of which will be preserved during the interim period.


From iris.org (quoting Yediot Aharonot), the proposal presented at Camp David:

http://www.iris.org.il/eilat_talks.htm

From 'le Monde', the final proposal offered at Camp David according to palestinian negotiatior:

http://mondediplo.com/maps/israeliterritorialproposals200012

Again I reiterate. Literacy. Marvelous ability when applied.

As I told CICSmaster when he messed up due to inadequate knowledge: I'm awaiting an apology.
Are you going to be bigger than him?

[Giancarlo]

I am not going to concede to your foolish argument. The offer was more the generous. Previous offers before that one were not up for discussion.

[Ned]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Ned:

Huh, when I advocate putting the repsonisble ones to death the pro-israelis here scream like stuck pigs...

I guess it is just the traditional pro-Israeli mindset: as long as it i done to arabs, anything is OK. If done to Israelis, it is outrageous.

CyberGnu, As you know, even the Israeli's have held Sharon partly responsible for the massacre's at the camps in 1982. Whether this amounts to a war crime - well the Dutch commander at Sebrenicia is similarly guilty. So is the French commander who refused to bring in airstrikes. Even Clinton stands accused in the massacre of the Serb town in Kosovo by the KLA after NATO's takeover. (Why Clinton and not the NATO commander?)

The French are on record that these "crimes" of omission not be subject to war crimes trials. However, if Sharon is eventually prosecuted for his "omissions" at the Lebanese camps, we should not have a double standard and let the responsible French, Dutch and American commanders get off for the massacres in Yugoslavia.

[chequita guevara]

Here's the interesting thing about the situation on the street in Palestine, I don't think any of the forces involved want to see the workers take Arafat out. The US has studiously attempted to crush every workers' revolt since 1917. Hamas definaely doesn't want thing to move in another direction from its control. None of the surrounding countries would like to see the workers revolt, since these things tend to be virulently infectious.

However, Hamas might actually benefit from the workers' taking out the PA. The Iranian revolution started out as a democratic workers revolt. But because there was only one organization capable of organizing the Ayatollah's ended up defining the revolution. The same could happen here.

[Sava]

Nah Fez, the Pals have had enough of living under a regime of terror. I doubt they'd want to live under one of greed.

[DanS]

"Too much to be believable, actually."

Frogger: I would believe it. Maybe not those figures precisely, but on the same order of magnitude.

[KrazyHorse]

Really? I'd think that there would be an uproar about it. It seems to me that the US is willing to spend a lot of money helping its military allies, but not so much when helping people who they've not had the friendliest relationship with...