Alberta is rich with oil, but what has it got to show for it?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher



You don't need to be so harsh on yourself.

I understand how it works, I just don't understand what you're saying.

Next thing you'll be telling me Canada owns the clothing on my back since if Canada and all of the provinces vote to remove private property rights they can.

Asher you have clearly demonstrated that you do not understand the basic concepts of Canadian democracy.

And once again, you are using a rather poor analogy that doesn't work. Most people would have realized that they are making a fool of themselves, but you haven't quite figured out the concept.

[Asher]

Okay, Tingkai, whatever. Is that how you always try to debate things?

Say things that are pretty damn vague and contradictory then blame everyone else for being a fool about it?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
Tingkai, at what point do you stop and analyze a situation where everyone else is wrong and you're the only one that's right?

Asher: you need to get a hold of your ego. Just because you are wrong doesn't mean that everyone else holds the same wrong opinions.

[Asher]

Fact: Alberta owns the Crown rights to its mineral resources as per the 1930 decree and 1887 order.

Your theory: Canada owns the Crown rights, since Canadians may move to Alberta and vote.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Asher: you need to get a hold of your ego. Just because you are wrong doesn't mean that everyone else holds the same wrong opinions.

I'm welcome to the possibility that I am wrong but I've seen nothing to the contrary. Not even from your arguments!

If you want to prove me wrong you're going to have to give me some links which spell out "Canada owns Alberta's resources, not Alberta" because everything I've found says otherwise.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Markusf: You're comments are even more disturbing. Do you not know the basic concepts of democracy?

Maybe he doesn't, but you seem to have communism down pat.

[Asher]

Oh my God, Tingkai! The Government of Alberta is also wrong!

http://www.energy.gov.ab.ca/com/RLA/Introduction/Resource+Land+Access.htm

Alberta's total land surface: 66,259,340 hectares
Provincial land for which Alberta owns mineral rights: 53,580,954 hectares

Appropriate and timely development of Alberta's petroleum and mineral resources sometimes requires negotiation of surface access to Crown lands where those resources are located.

Exercised as addendums to tenure agreements for subsurface mineral rights on Crown lands, land access typically applies to areas where surface access may be 'significantly' affected because of an environmental or land use concern. Appropriate levels of surface access restrictions may be negotiated among several Crown agencies and departments with an interest in natural resources, including branches responsible for environmental protection and historical preservation.

As I'm reading it the Crown still owns the land, but not the sub-surface minerals. What am I missing?

And more:

http://www.energy.gov.ab.ca/com/Room/Key+Publications/World+Energy.htm

The Government of Alberta owns 80% of the mineral rights in the
province. From this it receives land lease rentals, royalties
and bonus payments. These payments were over $10 billion in the fiscal
year 2000/01.

[markusf]

according to his logic next time quebec threatens to seperate, we can just tell them we own quebec and they aren't going anywhere unless the rest of canada has a referendum kicking quebec out of canada.

[markusf]

Originally posted by Asher



As I'm reading it the Crown still owns the land, but not the sub-surface minerals. What am I missing?

Its called oil leases. Every year there are big auctions which oil companies and others bid on land they want to explore/mine. I believe a lease goes for 25 years. If i remember right that means the oil company owns anything 6 feet under the ground. If you go and find diamonds in alberta, if you find them lieing around on top of the ground they are yours, but if you find them a few feet down they belong to the government.

[Tingkai]

This is really quite simple. What is a provincial government? The answer is provincial government are the representatives of Canadian citizens living in a specific province. Provincial governments are not the representatives of citizens of a province.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Provincial governments are not the representatives of citizens of a province.

Man I'm stupid.
I keep thinking the provincial governments were elected by the citizens of the province, to represent them in provincial matters which are under the province's jurisdiction. In this case, the province owns the minerals (as I've shown over and over again), and thus since the citizens of the province are electing their provincial government to manage their provincial assets, I'd say the provincial governments are representing the citizens of the province.

Break down my logic for me and tell me where it goes wrong.

[notyoueither]

No. Actually not entirely. I know (knew) some homesteaders from the teens and 20's. They own all the minerals beneath the surface, because they hold the rights. Them, not you Tinkai.

Some of them are very rich. Struck oil. It's theirs, by all the laws of the land. After 1930 (or so) all the oil rights belong to the province, not the country Tingkai.

Let Ottawa try another NEP and we'll show the rest of Canada just how fast it could be irrelevant.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai
This is really quite simple. What is a provincial government? The answer is provincial government are the representatives of Canadian citizens living in a specific province. Provincial governments are not the representatives of citizens of a province.

What are you smoking?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by markusf
according to his logic next time quebec threatens to seperate, we can just tell them we own quebec and they aren't going anywhere unless the rest of canada has a referendum kicking quebec out of canada.

Actually that was a possibility until a Supreme Court of Canada ruling in 1998.

The Supreme Court ruled that if the seperatists won a referendum then the government of Quebec did not have the right to unilaterally separate from Canada. However, the federal government would have a political obligation to negotiate a separation agreement.

The Liberals proposed a bill dealing with this issue. I can't recall what happened to it.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher



Man I'm stupid.
I keep thinking the provincial governments were elected by the citizens of the province, to represent them in provincial matters which are under the province's jurisdiction. In this case, the province owns the minerals (as I've shown over and over again), and thus since the citizens of the province are electing their provincial government to manage their provincial assets, I'd say the provincial governments are representing the citizens of the province.

Break down my logic for me and tell me where it goes wrong.

Simple. There is no legal entity call a citizen of Alberta. You are citizen of a country, not a province. Canadian citizens in Alberta are residents of that province.