Alberta is rich with oil, but what has it got to show for it?

[markusf]

Originally posted by Asher
At least the government's giving "Liberal" a bad name.

The only thing the bc liberals and the federal liberals share is the name. Their policies and biefs etc are completely different. the liberal party is basically the socrets with a new name.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
The provincial governments have been delegated sole control over mineral rights and do not have to share the control with the federal government. The provincial government can spend the mineral royalties as it sees fit, but who is the provincial government. It is the voice of all those who can vote. Since any Canadian can vote in a provincial election, provided they move to the province, which they are free to do, then the provincial governments are acting on behalf off all Canadians.

Sorry, but that's a really laughable semantic argument.

The province of Alberta can do whatever it wants with its resource revenue. If all of Canada moves to Alberta and votes to give it away, the second they move away we'll vote to keep it back to ourselves.

The provincial governments act on behalf of the residents of the provinces. It's that simple. Not all Canadians. The Federal government acts on behalf of all Canadians.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by blackice
Interesting to point out the oil sands and all your power generating abilities came from the NEP funds.

The time, at that time is what you need to look at to find why the NEP was put in place.
Jobs and homes accross the country were being lost not just there. At that time for the country it was the right thing to do. I understand the narrow view you have been taught but reality is at that time it was a good move by Trudeau.

This reply defies nearly all attempts to respond. The use of blatant lies, misdirection, and... utter drivel are a wonderous contribution to the mountain of spew that has heretofore been observed in OT. But here goes...

The NEP, which sucked revenue out of a thriving energy sector paid for the development of that industry in the first place? Come again...

OK. Albertans are supposed to be happy that the federal government played an instrumental role in throwing our economy into a tail spin. And gave us the finger, literally, while doing so. But, it helped people elsewhere. Riiight. Let me know how well that plays where you're from when it happens to you.

View I have been taught? Listen junior, I lived through it. I didn't need to be taught anything. Kinda like you and your *experience* with gender equity. Do you enjoy having your concerns dismissed by others because they have not been where you have been? Didn't think so. How do you enjoy your narrow views? They only serve you, right?

[markusf]

Originally posted by Asher


Sorry, but that's a really laughable semantic argument.

The province of Alberta can do whatever it wants with its resource revenue. If all of Canada moves to Alberta and votes to give it away, the second they move away we'll vote to keep it back to ourselves.

The provincial governments act on behalf of the residents of the provinces. It's that simple. Not all Canadians. The Federal government acts on behalf of all Canadians.

Thats not really true.

If the federal government can't get the money at "resource level" it just taxes the semi finished products, if it can't get it there it imposes tarrifs and duties etc on goods leaving/coming into the country.

[Asher]

*snip*

[markusf]

Originally posted by Asher
*snip*

whats that supposed to mean? I have taken economics.. basically if the fedal government wants to tax alberta's oil industry it will find a indirect way of doing it. Where there is a will there is a way, especially when your dealing with $$$.

[Asher]

I was just being stupid seeing as I've had no sleep for the past 48 hours so I edited it after I posted when I realized my brainfart, thus the *snip* as in I cut it out.

Edit: Sorry, that reads like a blackice post. Oh well.

[Tingkai]

It is rather sad that you do not understand the basic concepts of Canadian democracy. This is not a laughable semantic arguement. This is about democracy.

The initial question was who owns the oil. You claim it is Alberta. That is incorrect. The oil is in fact owned by the Canadian people.

The Canadian people have granted the government of Alberta the power to manage the untapped oil and the oil royalties. This power can be taken away if Canadians decide to do so. If the federal government and all the provinces, except Alberta, decided that mineral rights should be managed by the federal government, then that is what would happen.

The government of Alberta has no power to exclude other Canadians from enjoying the benefits of the oil revenues. Every Canadian has the right to move to Alberta.

The government of Alberta does not absolute power over how it spends the oil revenue. It can only do what the voters allow it to do. All Canadian voters have the right to vote in a provincial election, although they have to live in the province to exercise that right.

By contrast, people who are not Canadian citizens do not own the oil. They have no rights to the benefits created by the oil. They do not have a say in how the oil is managed.

So ultimately, the oil is owned by Canadians.

[Asher]

Perhaps I'm really really stupid, but I keep reading what the economics professor says and it's pretty clear to me:

So the government of Alberta, having been decreed by the 1887 Order as the Crown owner of the resources within its boundaries, is not obliged to share any portion of the resource royalties it collects with the federal government. It is free to spend those billions of dollars in ways that benefit only the citizens of Alberta.

Alberta is the crown owner of the resources. Not Canada. They reliquished those rights. You seem to be saying Canada could take the resources back by passing legislation or something to undo the decree to give the resources back -- but that has not happen and will not happen if Canada knows what's good for itself.

The government of Alberta has no power to exclude other Canadians from enjoying the benefits of the oil revenues. Every Canadian has the right to move to Alberta.

For the life of me I can't see how you see this as anything other than a poor semantic argument?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher


Perhaps I'm really really stupid, but I keep reading what the economics professor says and it's pretty clear to me:

Alberta is the crown owner of the resources. Not Canada. They reliquished those rights. You seem to be saying Canada could take the resources back by passing legislation or something to undo the decree to give the resources back -- but that has not happen and will not happen if Canada knows what's good for itself.

For the life of me I can't see how you see this as anything other than a poor semantic argument?

I find it sad that a Canadian citizen does not understand the basics of Canadian governments.

[markusf]

Tingkai i am not sure what planet you live on, but last i checked canada is not a communist country. Alberta owns the land in alberta, not me, not anyone else in canada and not the federal government. The government of alberta can then sell off leases to allow for drilling of oil to oil companies etc and the oil companies then own the oil. Also i believe if someone in your family was born before 1930 and still alive, they have the mineral rights to the land they owned before 1930.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
I find it sad that a Canadian citizen does not understand the
basics of Canadian governments.

You don't need to be so harsh on yourself.

I understand how it works, I just don't understand what you're saying.

Next thing you'll be telling me Canada owns the clothing on my back since if Canada and all of the provinces vote to remove private property rights they can.

[Tingkai]

Markusf: You're comments are even more disturbing. Do you not know the basic concepts of democracy?

[Asher]

Tingkai, at what point do you stop and analyze a situation where everyone else is wrong and you're the only one that's right?

[markusf]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Markusf: You're comments are even more disturbing. Do you not know the basic concepts of democracy?

Learn to seperate theory from reality. IN case you haven't noticed canada isn't a democracy and niether is the USA.