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**notyoueither** · June 5, 2002, 02:12

0.01/10.

**notyoueither** · June 5, 2002, 02:14

But oh, well.

You know squat about Alberta.

**Tingkai** · June 5, 2002, 02:17

So tell us about all the great things that have been done with the oil money.

**Asher** · June 5, 2002, 02:18

Re: Alberta is rich with oil, but what has it got to show for it?

/me dons his combat helmet and prepares for war with the socialist.

Originally posted by Tingkai
For just over 50 years, the Canadian province of Alberta has benefited from its massive oil reserves. The provincial government takes in about Cdn$2.5 billion in oil revenues every year. (For about five out of 50 years, a federal energy policy cut off this flow of money).

That's it?

With all that money, after all this time, what does Alberta have to show for its wealth. What has its right-wing governments really achieved?

What could have been done?

There is no sales tax, but that is only because the government gets about $2-3 billion in oil revenues.

When oil prices collapse, the Albertan government runs a deficit.

Not exactly true. It is actually illegal to run a deficit in Alberta. By law, we cannot run a deficit. By law, 75% of all surpluses must go to paying down the debt too.
I would suggest you look up what the "Alberta Heritage Fund" and its purpose.

People are currently moving to Alta because high oil prices have created a strong economy, but if oil prices drop to low levels for an extended period of time, the economy goes into a tailspin and people leave.

Alberta's economy has diversified at an incredible rate since the early 80s, where we saw that weakness. Presently the technology sector in particular is soaring in Alberta, and the percentage of provincial revenue coming from energy shrinks every year.

Living standards in Alta are not much different from B.C. or Ontario (at least from what I've seen).

Anecdotal evidence. One might argue with awards like "Cleanest City in the World" going to Calgary, with the lowest taxes in the nation, etc, it could be better here. All subjective though.

The provincial education system is pretty much the same as elsewhere. The most respected Canadian universities are in other provinces.

There are only 3M people in Alberta, you know. And until recently Alberta wasn't exactly a happenin' place to live. So why is it surprising that the much, much older Ontario/Quebec/East coast universities have larger reputations?

Culture is pretty much marginal. Famous Albertan? I can't think of any.

Nickelback are from a town in Alberta. Love them or hate them, they're arguably the biggest Rock group right now.
Then there are also quite a few famous Albertans in the business sector in Canada if you've ever picked up a business magazine.

Plus James Gosling, creator of Java and a VP of Sun Microsystems, is an Albertan...

But this is truly a bull**** argument of yours. You're basing how much of a "culture" a province has based on the number of famous people it has? Especially when that province makes up only 3M people?

Alta does have two NHL teams, which is quite an accomplishment for such a small population.

Damn straight.

Billions of dollars have gone into the provincial government coffers. Where did it go? What has Alberta got to show for it?

Healthiest economy in the nation, best place to live in the nation.

By the way, Alberta's nearly debt free. No other US States or Canadian provinces can claim that.

What's missing?

**Asher** · June 5, 2002, 02:22

Did I forget to mention the flat-tax rate for personal income at 10.5%, and lowest corporate tax rates in the nation also?

**Asher** · June 5, 2002, 02:29

Some more fascinating statistics for you to munch on, Tingkai:

http://www.treas.gov.ab.ca/business/budget/index.html

**Tingkai** · June 5, 2002, 02:30

Re: Re: Alberta is rich with oil, but what has it got to show for it?

Originally posted by Asher
Not exactly true. It is actually illegal to run a deficit in Alberta. By law, we cannot run a deficit. By law, 75% of all surpluses must go to paying down the debt too.
I would suggest you look up what the "Alberta Heritage Fund" and its purpose.

IIRC, the Albertan government had deficit budgets in throughout the first half of the 1990s.

It must been legal to have a deficit quite recently if you still are paying off a government debt.

Originally posted by Asher
Alberta's economy has diversified at an incredible rate since the early 80s, where we saw that weakness. Presently the technology sector in particular is soaring in Alberta, and the percentage of provincial revenue coming from energy shrinks every year.

I'll admit that I don't know anything about the IT sector in Alberta. What percentage of the Alberta GDP comes from IT?

Originally posted by Asher
There are only 3M people in Alberta, you know. And until recently Alberta wasn't exactly a happenin' place to live.

Why not? Alberta has a lot going for it. It has had tonnes of money for decades. Why has it failed to attract droves of people before?

Originally posted by Asher
Then there are also quite a few famous Albertans in the business sector in Canada if you've ever picked up a business magazine.

Plus James Gosling, creator of Java and a VP of Sun Microsystems, is an Albertan...

Yeah, there's the bastard Pockington.

Originally posted by Asher
But this is truly a bull**** argument of yours. You're basing how much of a "culture" a province has based on the number of famous people it has?

Fine, tell me about the great culture within Alberta.

Originally posted by Asher
Healthiest economy in the nation

Because of high oil prices.

**Asher** · June 5, 2002, 02:36

Re: Re: Re: Alberta is rich with oil, but what has it got to show for it?

Originally posted by Tingkai
IIRC, the Albertan government had deficit budgets in throughout the first half of the 1990s.

It must been legal to have a deficit quite recently if you still are paying off a government debt.

Look up the "Fiscal Responsibility Act" and read what it entails.

I'll admit that I don't know anything about the IT sector in Alberta. What percentage of the Alberta GDP comes from IT?

I have no idea off the top of my head.

But Alberta is intentionally spending TONS of money developing this sector. I'm seeing the effects first hand as a computer science student.

You should look up the Alberta "SuperNet", which guarantees broadband access to every resident of Alberta, and built a high speed fibre connection connecting the Universities in Alberta. They also just paid for a huge expansion building that just opened at the University of Calgary called the ICT building -- and its entire purpose is computer science and computer engineering and other IT work. And they're giving record amounts of money to SAIT (Southern Alberta Institute of Technology) to expand, as well as NAIT (Northern...etc), and University of Alberta is expanding its IT fields as well.

Why not? Alberta has a lot going for it. It has had tonnes of money for decades. Why has it failed to attract droves of people before?

Gee, I don't know.
Maybe it's crap like the NEP and the fact that the rest of Canada seems to think Alberta is full of religious rednecks?

Fine, tell me about the great culture within Alberta.

What's there to talk about?
We've got regular concerts flowing through here, festivals, the Stampede itself, etc.

Because of high oil prices.

What does this have to do with your thread?

**Asher** · June 5, 2002, 02:38

More of what Alberta has to show, since you asked in this thread:

Alberta continues to have the lowest debt per capita in Canada and the best credit rating. Accumulated debt is projected to be $5.9 billion by the end of the 2002-03 fiscal year and less than $5 billion by March 31, 2005.
Alberta remains nine years ahead of its 25-year legislated debt retirement schedule.
We have the lowest unemployment rate in Canada. Employment is expected to grow by an average of 2.2 per cent for the next four years.
Albertans continue to enjoy the lowest overall personal and business tax load in Canada. Alberta has no sales tax, no payroll tax and no capital tax.
Alberta has the highest GDP per capita among the provinces and based on the Fraser Institute’s 2001 Survey of Senior Managers, Alberta has the best investment climate in the country.
In 2001, Alberta had a record 11.7 per cent of the workforce involved in research and development activities.
Alberta continues to lead, as it has for decades, all provinces in total private sector investment per capita. For the last five years, it has been nearly double that of the next highest province.
Over the last five years, our average growth in the number of businesses has been the fastest of any province in the country.
Over the last eight years, Alberta has cut its debt by nearly 75 per cent or $16.7 billion and as a result.
Calgary has the second highest number of head offices of any city in Canada, behind Toronto. Toronto has approximately 5 times the population of Calgary, so on a per capita basis, Calgary exceeds any other city by far.
In 2001, Alberta's 1.8% growth in population also led the provinces. The fastest growing city in Canada is currently Calgary, Alberta. The second fastest growing city in Canada is currently Edmonton, Alberta.
From July 2000 to June 2001, a net of 25,748 migrants came to Alberta from other provinces, almost 8,000 more than second place Ontario.
Alberta has the best educated workforce in Canada. Approximately 65% of Alberta's population aged 25 to 54 has post-secondary education.
Alberta has the youngest population among the provinces. About 61% of Albertans are under the age of 40. (Sorry notyoueither )
Alberta has the highest labour force participation rate in Canada.
Based on KPMG's study of business costs in North America, Europe and Japan, Edmonton is the least expensive city in which to do business out of 86 major cities in nine countries. Calgary rates in third place.

All and all, I'm seeing lots to show for it. What do you think?

**Asher** · June 5, 2002, 02:50

Regarding culture:
Alberta continues to stay at the top for private sector support of the performing arts, according to the most recent data.

Alberta's net debt has been eliminated, with total financial assets exceeding total liabilities.

And as for your comment about the education system, Alberta students are leading the nation in Math scores...

And finally, you said that Alberta brings in $2.5B in oil revenues per year, and went on to describe how the world would end in Alberta if the oil price plummets. Did you know that if Alberta adopted Ontario's tax system, our revenue would increase $4.3B, and if we adopted Quebec's tax system, our revenue would increase $8.8B. That would offset the maybe $1B less in revenue from half of the oil prices, no?

(Source is here: http://www.treas.gov.ab.ca/publicati...002/abadv.html). The thing is, Alberta's government is lean. It's been right wing for as long as everyone can remember, and it's extremely efficient.

Any more questions?

**notyoueither** · June 5, 2002, 03:23

Originally posted by Asher
About 61% of Albertans are under the age of 40. (Sorry notyoueither

)

Whoaaa. Don't push me into the grave quite so soon son.

Not yet wise enough to be 40. Not quite.

**markusf** · June 5, 2002, 03:32

what exactly are "fine arts" LOLOL I have never seen or heard of a good example.

Klien should take over the Alliance or whatever they call themselves now and run for prime minister. He may be a drunk but he sure can get the job done.!

**notyoueither** · June 5, 2002, 03:34

Day came from his cabinet. Fortunately for the govt of Alberta (he's gone now).

**Asher** · June 5, 2002, 03:36

I think Klein's quote on "Eastern bums and creeps" will bury his campaign in a national election, even though the comment was somewhat misunderstood by most of the nation.

And he has a tendancy to go into a homeless shelter and tell them to get jobs.

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Alberta is rich with oil, but what has it got to show for it?

Alberta is rich with oil, but what has it got to show for it?

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