Alberta is rich with oil, but what has it got to show for it?

[KrazyHorse]

Plus only half of Quebec would leave...

Native bands elected to stay in case of a yes vote in 1995, and Montreal was ~60% in favour of breaking off and forming a new province...

[Asher]

Must I procede with my nuclear war plan, then?

[notyoueither]

Busy making friends in other parts I see Asher.

KH. Yes, the post vote situation would be very volatile. I for one am very glad the last go was parried and that interest in the topic seems to be in decline.

I am also against Alberta separating, BTW. Personally, I would be very sad if the circumstances ever came about that made the notion probable.

[KrazyHorse]

I hope so too. Despite all the crap that's been flying around for the past couple of days, I'm happy to call Albertans Canadian...

[KrazyHorse]

Oh, and Asher: you want to know how dumbasses can affect a vote? ~25% of voters didn't know that a yes vote would authorize the formation of a new, sovereign state.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
His economics degree has taken him places, I see.

As a matter of fact, my economics degree has taken me many places. I use my knowledge of economics on routine basis and it makes me a better reporter than many of the other journalists covering business and economics.

I can see stories that others would overlook. I know the right questions to challenge the mythology of the day. Look at this thread. The mythology is that the BC NDP government were spent money left, right and centre, while the Albertan government were not spendthrifts. The 2001-02 budget figures suggest that this may not be the case.

Of course the downside to having a university education is that you tend to think that most people have the intelligence required to recognize that a glib comment should not be taken seriously and that people often make jibes that they don't really mean. Unfortunately, that is not always the case.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
He doesn't even live here, which is probably why he's so clueless about Alberta to begin with.

And what's your excuse about being clueless about the Canadian political system?

By the way, I have lived in Alberta, and BC, Ontario and Manitoba. It's amazing what you learn when you live in different parts of the country. You'll find that your assumptions and beliefs are not necessarily true. Or at least you will if you keep an open mind.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
And what's your excuse about being clueless about the Canadian political system?

Well, considering that you've yet to actually show any shred of evidence to support your claims that go against everything else on the internet, I'm willing to bet that it is not I who is clueless about the Canadian political system. You seem to think that since a Canadian can live 6 months in Alberta, then affect Alberta's vote, technically this government serves all Canadians. I tend to think in a more logical way.

By the way, I have lived in Alberta, and BC, Ontario and Manitoba. It's amazing what you learn when you live in different parts of the country. You'll find that your assumptions and beliefs are not necessarily true. Or at least you will if you keep an open mind.

Where did you live in Alberta, specifically, and when?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher

Well, considering that you've yet to actually show any shred of evidence to support your claims that go against everything else on the internet, I'm willing to bet that it is not I who is clueless about the Canadian political system. You seem to think that since a Canadian can live 6 months in Alberta, then affect Alberta's vote, technically this government serves all Canadians. I tend to think in a more logical way.

Where did you live in Alberta, specifically, and when?

You still don't get it, do you. The Canadian people decide to create a two-level government system to serve their needs. It was the Canadian people who created the Albertan government. Alberta is not independent from the rest of Canada. To paraphrase the Yanks, we the people created our political system.

So Canadians created the provincial and federal government to act on their behalf. The Canadian people have the right to change the powers granted to the federal and provincial governments.

I lived in Lake Louise and Banff during the early 1980s (ski bum. )

I saw what the Albertan economy was like when you were still in diapers. As a journalist, I also keep up-to-date on the economies in different parts of Canada, although less so since moving to HK in 97.

From everything you have written, I think you have a rather narrow viewpoint of the Albertan economy. You're a rich kid in Calgary, the son of an oil executive. Have you ever lived in a small northern town (I spent 18 months in The Pas, Manitoba and that was an eye opener)? Have you ever lived outside of Calgary? Do you know what it is like to live from pay cheque to pay cheque?

[Asher]

You still don't get it, do you.

I get it, I don't get your logic though.

Regardless of who is "above" the provincial governments in the hierarchy of our beurocracy, the Alberta Government is elected by Albertans (people who have lived here six months or more and are Canadian citizens) to deal with provincial matters and provincial assets. What the other people in Canada think about it means absolutely nothing. Alberta's provincial government is there for the province of Alberta. Why is that so hard for YOU to understand?

You seem to think Canada is communist or something. The federal government gives provinces jurisdiction on certain things because it realized that different regions sometimes want different things. Thus they regionalized some issues, one of them are mineral resources. The voters of Alberta have complete control over what is done with those resources. NOT "all" of Canada.

Your semantics don't take you very far. I hate them.

I saw what the Albertan economy was like when you were still in diapers. As a journalist, I also keep up-to-date on the economies in different parts of Canada, although less so since moving to HK in 97.

I'm going to be paying for your liquid-food in a couple more years, so I'd learn to show some respect to the youngun's.

I really, really hate it when people always bring age (and it's ALWAYS the diapers comment too). Just because you're old doesn't mean you're wiser. In fact, you're getting so old your brain is on a downward slope in functionality.

I think you have a rather narrow viewpoint of the Albertan economy.

Sure as hell beats yours, seeing as you have no clue about the Albertan economy, no?

Have you ever lived in a small northern town (I spent 18 months in The Pas, Manitoba and that was an eye opener)? Have you ever lived outside of Calgary? Do you know what it is like to live from pay cheque to pay cheque?

Oh christ, would you give it a rest?
Nobody cares about where you've lived or who you've ****ed or what you ate for breakfast.

We're talking about Canadian politics, and your ideas are outrageous and go against everything I've ever learned in school, anything on websites I can find. And you still insist you're correct without providing proof.

And FYI, I have lived outside of Calgary. Although it was in a San Francisco suburb that was all white-collar since the oil company's worldwide HQ was there as well as Pac-Bell's HQ, in a town of 35,000.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
You seem to think Canada is communist or something. The federal government gives provinces jurisdiction on certain things because it realized that different regions sometimes want different things.

Ah, the old "If you disagree with me, you're commie" argument.

The federal government did not give provinces jurisdiction. Jurisdiction was determined, initially, by the governments of the future provinces. After confederation, any decision to change jurisdictional power was determined by the federal government and the provinces. In other words, by representatives of all Canadians.

Originally posted by Asher
Nobody cares about where you've lived

That's funny. I could have sworn that you asked me twice about where I have lived. And didn't you make some earlier comments about where I currently live?

Originally posted by Asher
We're talking about Canadian politics, and your ideas are outrageous and go against everything I've ever learned in school, anything on websites I can find.

Well since you stated "The federal government gives provinces jurisdiction on certain things", you may want to brush up on your knowledge of Canadian politics. It is quite different from the American system.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Ah, the old "If you disagree with me, you're commie" argument.

No, it's the new "you're describing a communist state" argument. I never called you a commie.

The federal government did not give provinces jurisdiction.

How would you describe the 1930 agreement then?

That's funny. I could have sworn that you asked me twice about where I have lived. And didn't you make some earlier comments about where I currently live?

I asked you where you currently live, I don't recall asking where you have lived, other than the Alberta-specific question. You went off on some tangent about Manitoba, etc.

Well since you stated "The federal government gives provinces jurisdiction on certain things", you may want to brush up on your knowledge of Canadian politics. It is quite different from the American system.

Again, how do you explain giving mineral rights to the western provinces in 1930?

Are you playing with semantics again? I swear to god, if you are...

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
How would you describe the 1930 agreement then?

It was an agreement reached between the federal government and the western provinces. The agreement was ratified by the federal parliament AND by each of the provincial legislatures. As well, it was also ratified by the British parliament (which had the final say at that time).

In no way did the federal parliament give the provinces jurisdiction. It was a joint agreement about who would manage the resources, who would pay the management costs and who would receive any benefits.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
In no way did the federal parliament give the provinces jurisdiction. It was a joint agreement about who would manage the resources, who would pay the management costs and who would receive any benefits.

Again, I have a hard time believing this considering everywhere I look the term "owns" is mentioned between "Alberta" and "the oil".

If it was simply an agreement to "manage" it on "behalf of all Canadians" like you're claiming they wouldn't own it, would they? Alberta is the crown OWNER of the land. They are not the crown MANAGER of the land.

There is a distinct difference.

Now you're reaching to hit the Reply w/ Quote button.

And you're going to tell me I have no clue how the system works.

And I will reply saying the same things once again.

So why don't we just call it quits?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher

No, it's the new "you're describing a communist state" argument. I never called you a commie.

I am describing Canadian confederation, a democracy. It is very different from traditional communist states where all power is held by the central government. Confederation represents the people (i.e. democracy) deciding how their government should operate.