Rugby!

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Interesting news this morning. Christian Cullen has been dropped from the AB squad against the Irish.

Oh, and Queensland have sacked coach Mark McBain. Which only confirms the rumors that have been floating around for the last two seasons. It was said that he didn't have the confidence of senior players. It was said he was tactically inept. Still, he took them to the finals last season and as near as damn this season. Who'd be a coach?

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Originally posted by Caligastia


Also Caleb Ralph will no doubt be more conscious of over-running when supporting other players. A couple of tries were butchered because of that.

He still scored one even after over-running. Reached behind him, IIRC.

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Originally posted by Caligastia




Yes, I sw that bit. The commentators were blaming it on "latin blood", saying that when he saw Gibson's face right by his foot it was "instinct" to kick it.

Mazzariol seemed almost as suprised as Gibson. After kicking him in the face he was apologising profusely with a look of regret on his face. "thats how they play over there, they cant help it" quips the commentator.

The action and immediate reaction were bizarre, weren't they? Strangest (and most amusing) thing I've seen in rugby in years.

[Havak]

I think I've seen a match for it from the Italians actually.

In their first season in the six nations playing Ireland the Irish scrum half Peter Stringer turns round to check the position of his opposite number before putting the ball into the scrum only to meet the guys fist - *lights out*.

The referee is right behind both of them and the Italian is red carded whilst protesting his innocence all the way to the touchline.

They can be an entertaining team to watch all right.

What is the comparative strength of that NZ National XV? I can't believe Ireland blew them away like that.

Watch for Geordan Murphy in the real deal tests - talented young winger from Tigers roster - he is lightening fast and a smart rugger player.

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Originally posted by Havak
What is the comparative strength of that NZ National XV? I can't believe Ireland blew them away like that.

The National XV came from the provincial comp's second and third division teams. Enough said. With the All Blacks squad busy, and the Maori squad over here, there probably weren't too many players left in the Shaky Isles. Helen Clark probably turned down the loose head spot.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
I think I've seen a match for it from the Italians actually.

In their first season in the six nations playing Ireland the Irish scrum half Peter Stringer turns round to check the position of his opposite number before putting the ball into the scrum only to meet the guys fist - *lights out*.

The referee is right behind both of them and the Italian is red carded whilst protesting his innocence all the way to the touchline.

Crazy! Must be that latin blood...

I dont think Ive ever seen a red card given out in a rugby match. I presume that means the team is down a man for the rest of the game?

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Just like soccer. I've seen it happen for ongoing professional fouls.

[Havak]

National XV came from the provincial comp's second and third division teams

The interesting thing is the National leagues (i.e 2nd and 3rd division) in England could assemble a team that had a real chance of beating Ireland - but then it's hard to compare between different leagues at the best of times.

Yes red card is permanently off the field.

Red cards are not exactly common here but you do see them several times a season for overt violent foul play (anything blatantly in front of the ref). The yellow card is intended for non-violent foul play of course, but it has grown to be used a a cop-out by refs afraid of showing red - I have therefore seen punches regularly recieve only yellow. Then again you should have seen one red at least as Giffen saw it against the Boks last year for a very silly (Johnson-esque?) punch on Skinstad? A very silly lapse from a player with great potential (but he is no Eales yet eh Finbar?).

Then again I've seen one casual punch cause one yellow card and then an outcry for a public lynching (and we are right back to Johnson). The best thing is Pienaar getting involved in that Jonno witch hunt helped hasten his departure from Saracens as the English game finally got tired of the whining loser.

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Originally posted by Havak


The interesting thing is the National leagues (i.e 2nd and 3rd division) in England could assemble a team that had a real chance of beating Ireland - but then it's hard to compare between different leagues at the best of times.

Tee-hee. We don't even have a national league. Just the club comps in Sydney and Brisbane and very minor club comps in the other capitals.

Then again you should have seen one red at least as Giffen saw it against the Boks last year for a very silly (Johnson-esque?) punch on Skinstad? A very silly lapse from a player with great potential (but he is no Eales yet eh Finbar?).

Terrific potential, Giffen. Sadly he missed most of the S12 season through injury.

[Havak]

Just the club comps in Sydney and Brisbane and very minor club comps in the other capitals

Well the Super 12 is an okay competition of course. I can't help but feel you miss something not having a national tournament though.

I like the way it helps kill all arguments over who are the best side in a given country after all. Or are you going to try and sell me that Waratahs are a btter side than Brumbies

Crikey, I had better run for it now...

[Caligastia]

I cant think of anything to say, so ill just bump this thread....

[LDiCesare]

I can't help but feel you miss something not having a national tournament though.

Funny. I thought the British used to lecture the French that their championship was a bad thing and the reason why they played foul back when they decided to ban France from the 5 nations (OK it was quite a few decades ago). Still, you have a point. National championship is something great.

[Tamerlin]

Hi everybody,

I never thought I would find a Rugby thread on Apolyton. First of all, I must admit I have not understood everything (we are in the same boat LDiCesare) and that I don't know some of the players you are talking about (I know the greater part of them though).

About Australia vs. France, it's rather difficult to estimate the capacity of our players to win the tests. The french championship is only finished since a week, the season has been long and tough and the french players are known to be unpredictable. But we have some reasons (the six nations tournament and the victories against southern hemisphere teams) to believe they can learn to be more regular under the guidance of Bernard Laporte and his staff. At least we hope they will.

About Joe Roff : the fact he is one of the best player in the world is not to be discussed. But, I've not seen him at his best in France. I've followed the whole french championship (as usual) and went to the stadium everytime a match was played in Toulouse (LdiCesare : j'étais à Montpellier, sniff ! ). Joe Roff has played like a good (and certainly not best) level french championship player, no more, no less.

I would like to insist on the fact the northern hemisphere Rugby, and especially the french one, is very different from the southern hemisphere play. When I look at the Tri-Nations or the Super 12, I sometimes wonder if we are playing the same game (undisputed scrums for example) and if we are following the same rules (some faults we consider very bad are almost ignored by the referee). The european Rugby is more based on the fundamentals (pushed scrums, mauls, attack towards the wings) while yours is (in my opinion) more physical, "mechanical" (please forgive my lack of vocabulary) and certainly more spectacular.
Perhaps Joe Roff has never really managed to get used to these differences, perhaps Biarritz' coaches have tried to use Joe Roff in a wrong way or the game played by his team didn't fit well with his qualities, perhaps was he on holidays... ?

I don't consider we are playing a superior Rugby though I think we, in Europe, are closer to the spirit of the game as it was created. And, honestly, I don't like most of the new rules and the changes they have provoked in this game. The simple fact some have seriously imagined the scrums should not be pushed anymore is horryfying.

It would be great if we could play at the same game with the same rules though I don't think it will be enough for a northern nation to win the RWC, but our time will come (when the stars are right...).

There is only one thing I'am sure of, the "Brennus Shield" is the most beautiful trophee in the world.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Hi everybody,

Hi! Great to see more rugby fans posting here! Welcome!

they can learn to be more regular under the guidance of Bernard Laporte and his staff. At least we hope they will.

I hope so too, I would like to see France beat Australia, but Im from New Zealand, so thats to be expected...

I would like to insist on the fact the northern hemisphere Rugby, and especially the french one, is very different from the southern hemisphere play. When I look at the Tri-Nations or the Super 12, I sometimes wonder if we are playing the same game (undisputed scrums for example)

Undisputed scrums?? Never seen that myself.

and if we are following the same rules (some faults we consider very bad are almost ignored by the referee).

Can you give me an example?

The european Rugby is more based on the fundamentals (pushed scrums, mauls, attack towards the wings) while yours is (in my opinion) more physical, "mechanical" (please forgive my lack of vocabulary)

Thats funny, I would have said the exact same thing about NH rugby...

and certainly more spectacular.

oh, ok.

I don't consider we are playing a superior Rugby though I think we, in Europe, are closer to the spirit of the game as it was created.

I like to think of SH rugby as being more....progressive

And, honestly, I don't like most of the new rules and the changes they have provoked in this game. The simple fact some have seriously imagined the scrums should not be pushed anymore is horryfying.

I honestly dont know what makes you think scrums are becoming uncontested in the SH, has someone suggested this should be the case? Maybe youve been watching rugby league

[Tamerlin]

Hi,

In the SH the number 9 is introducing the ball into the scrum, the ball is generally quickly played out. When I write the scrum are undisputed, I mean that many SH teams are not trying to push powerfully in order to win the ball (at least this is what I perceive). Of course, and thankfully, this is not the case for the mauls.

In France, the scrums are used by powerful packs to earn an advantage, recover some balls and wear out the other players. I don't think this is anymore the case in the SH. The "Sporting Union Agenais", finalist of the French championship, have won their semi-final against the "Stade Toulousain" (Bouhouhouhou ! ) thanks, among other reasons, to their first three lines which have disrupted the "Stade Toulousain" game by committing themselves to a hard fight each scrum. The key of the final has been in the hand of the first and third lines. It has not been the most beautiful game I have seen, but it has certainly be one of the most interesting rugby fight I have ever seen.

There are no different rules per se in the SH of course but huge differences in interpretation. I find the SH referees are too lenient :

- Rucking : almost always sanctionned in France (except when the referee is looking elsewhere), the only player which can do some rucking is the half-scrum and only in order to recover the ball.
- Violent entry into a scrum : almost never whistled in the SH,
- Entering by the side of the scrum : not often signaled in the SH,
- Diving over the scrum : is there any rule against that in the SH...

I've not seen a SH rugby match since the end of the Super 12 but let me see a game and I will point you many differences in interpretation.

Whatsoever, I've seen wonderful games in the super 12, the Tri-nations or the various tests, but I still consider the SH Rugby is evolving into something close to an other game, perhaps more progressist, but still another game. I prefer the Rugby as we play it in Europe, less spectacular but more like a hard fight. I like games with a strong fight between the first lines sacrifying themselves for the backs and their wonderful runs... as the all blacks (or should I say the all backs ) terrorizing the planet a few years ago. Today, as seen from Europe, the SH play is rather standardized (give me back the "all blacks" I knew... uuuuh, wait until the end of the future RWC, please).

New rules are sometimes a boon (recovering the throw in a lineout when you are kicking the ball out of the field after a penalty) when they are "in the spirit" of the game. This is not always the case.

Whatever my opinion, the SH teams are great teams... and will stay great teams.