Rugby!

[Tamerlin]

Sorry, I have not yet read the last posts but I've read Caligastia thought about the nature of the competitions.

I wouldn't like at all a Championship that would end without what we name "Final Phases" in France. The "Brennus Shield" would have a very different flavor without semi-finals and a final, actually it wouldn't mean anything at all anymore. I think I'am rather fair on this issue as the Stade Toulousain would have been champion at the end of the play off...

All along the "Final Phases", there is always something in the air, there is even a sentence that is describing what we feel at this time, we usually say it when the atmosphere around the field is hot : "there is a Final Phases Perfume..."

About the bonus points for four tries and defeat by less than 7 points , I would like this rule to be applied to all the competitions.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak

And it doesn't worry you at all that neither man would currently get in the England 22? Neil back is the master that Smith aspires to be and Lewis Moody is certainly more dynamic than Smith and almost a lunatic in the way he commits himself. Jack I need to see more of to be sure but as I have said before I have heard great things about him.

At the risk of echoing Caligastia - BOLLOCKS!

I mean the type of athletic performance witnessed at twickenham in November where the front five were joinign the flankers and moving all around the park hitting the oppostion hard and starving them of ball. England suffocated the Australian pack that day but it didn't lack movement and it wasn't boring - but yeah I'm biased.

Which is, basically, the best way to counter the (for want of a better term) Wallabies/Brumbies style. Get in their faces, pressure them, don't give the time or space to play their game. To an extent, it's what those who beat the Brumbies this season did to them. The thing is, though, it has to be done well because, with so many players committed, there are holes all over the place.

Oh yes, it's an art form. I'm well aware Australian players dislike them - but I'm afraid that seems to be because they can't counter them effectively?

No, Australians have never been good at countering rolling mauls. Their habit is simply to pull down the maul and give away a penalty. OTOH, a good rolling maul is very hard to counter. It's one of the great sights in rugby.

What a nice way of saying we used to breed heffers to lie on the ball all day and hiot anyone coming near?

Well, quite. I have to assume GB lost a number of props to Mad Cow Disease. In its animal form.

Okay I'd like to see our French amis comment on some of the points as we are beating each other with the same old sticks (and you SH guys outnumber me!).

Actually, I'm working on a means of filtering out our French friends' posts in order to maintain the very fair and reasonable situation in which we outnumber you.

Hope they were happy dream Finbar, enjoy all the weekend rugby and I'll catch up with you all Monday (in various time zones).

Actually, I had a couple of unpleasant little nightmares. I hope they weren't pointing towards the Wallaby -v- Maori game tonight.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia

I think we have a difference of opinion here that is probably due to the fact that Finbar and I dont watch as much NH rugby as you, and you dont watch as much SH rugby as us. When you see great performances from the same great players often enough it tends to skew your perspective of other great players that you dont watch as much. The only way to settle this is to have England play NZ and Australia.

Unfortunately we have to wait till November to see England play Australia, and next year to see England play NZ.

I have only one question. If England are so good, why don't they clean up the 6 Nations every year against - in certainly 4 cases - second-rate opposition?

[LDiCesare]

Is this thread active!
Echoing the championship format:
The French championship has a final mainly because it makes for a match many people go to see. Going to Paris for a final is something supporters love. And I guess the federation and clubs love the money too.
But it is also important to consider that the French championship, whose formula changes every year, always manages to split the elite in 2 or more groups, meaning one club can in theory meet another one twice in the initial rounds, twice in the second stage, and once in final, thus 5 times in a season, whereas they will never play a side that was eliminated in the other initial group. Thus, if groups weren't balanced, a result based on number of wins wouldn't be very satisfying. I believe after the first stage we might hava had Perpignan for a champion, but they crumbled when they were set against the higher level teams. The current system tries to promote elite clubs by having them meet each other more often. I consider this year's championship system was one of the best we have had.
As for ball conquest and forward fights, well, in France that is something we like a lot. A few teams had a strong reputation for rolling mauls. They are a form of art, I agree, but it takes a while to learn it. I also like to see the props in a scrum. You sometimes realize early in a game that a prop is being crushed, and that usually pays later in the game. The problem is it requires some knowledge of the scrum and a good viewpoint to appreciate that. Rarely can you get this on TV. The good point in NH learnt from the south is that now, after a rolling maul, we tend to run with the ball whereas a few years ago we would have kicked. Considering a good maul does a lot to mine a defense, I think the frowards fights contribute to making the fights more spectacular.
As for my location, I was born in NE, and now live near Paris, which is not much better as far as high level is concerned, but there are more people thus more teams available to play with.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar


I have only one question. If England are so good, why don't they clean up the 6 Nations every year against - in certainly 4 cases - second-rate opposition?

Ok, so I have a soft spot for England...

[Caligastia]

New Zealand defeat Ireland 15-6


A pretty awful from performance from the All Blacks. Ireland were always in the game until the last few minutes when a second try was finally scored. The All Blacks seem to be suffering from a lack of commitment and cohesion. They have so many brilliant players, but for some reason they are unable to perform as a unit, which is strange when you consider that most of the team are Crusaders. Their performance was so bad that even the NZ crowd were booing them at the end of the game. I dont blame them.


Australia defeat NZ Maoris 27-23


This was easily the most exciting game of the weekend. The Maoris were down 27-6 and managed to come back late in the second half with a 3 try blitz. I dont know whether you had the same commentators or not Finbar, but the kiwi ones I had just about creamed themselves when the maoris got that third try.
In the end it was the kicks at goal that saved the lacklustre Wallabies from defeat. The game finished with an incredible 18 phases from the maori. Great game!


None of the Tri-nations teams look particularly impressive at the moment, so hopefully things will improve soon.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
Is this thread active!
Echoing the championship format:
The French championship has a final mainly because it makes for a match many people go to see. Going to Paris for a final is something supporters love. And I guess the federation and clubs love the money too.
But it is also important to consider that the French championship, whose formula changes every year, always manages to split the elite in 2 or more groups, meaning one club can in theory meet another one twice in the initial rounds, twice in the second stage, and once in final, thus 5 times in a season, whereas they will never play a side that was eliminated in the other initial group. Thus, if groups weren't balanced, a result based on number of wins wouldn't be very satisfying. I believe after the first stage we might hava had Perpignan for a champion, but they crumbled when they were set against the higher level teams. The current system tries to promote elite clubs by having them meet each other more often. I consider this year's championship system was one of the best we have had.
As for ball conquest and forward fights, well, in France that is something we like a lot. A few teams had a strong reputation for rolling mauls. They are a form of art, I agree, but it takes a while to learn it. I also like to see the props in a scrum. You sometimes realize early in a game that a prop is being crushed, and that usually pays later in the game. The problem is it requires some knowledge of the scrum and a good viewpoint to appreciate that. Rarely can you get this on TV. The good point in NH learnt from the south is that now, after a rolling maul, we tend to run with the ball whereas a few years ago we would have kicked. Considering a good maul does a lot to mine a defense, I think the frowards fights contribute to making the fights more spectacular.
As for my location, I was born in NE, and now live near Paris, which is not much better as far as high level is concerned, but there are more people thus more teams available to play with.

I guess we all agree that finals are the most exciting way to finish a competition.

You must be excited about the upcoming France-Australia game

[LDiCesare]

I am looking forward to the Australia-France tests, but I may not be able to see them due to several constraints . Tonight, we have Argentina-France on TV in 2 hours, so I want to see that. The Pumas fared well against the AB so it should be interesting.

[Tamerlin]

Sorry, not much time this week-end.

A result : Argentina 28 - France 27...

It seems there is a tradition, every time France has won the grand slam the summer tests have been bad for the team.

They will have to play much, much better against Australia.

See you monday.

Caligastia : do you think someone here doesn't know why the New Zealand team is called the "all blacks" ? If yes, it could be interesting to tell the story behind this name.

Hint : this is not because they are dressed in black.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
New Zealand defeat Ireland 15-6


A pretty awful from performance from the All Blacks. Ireland were always in the game until the last few minutes when a second try was finally scored. The All Blacks seem to be suffering from a lack of commitment and cohesion. They have so many brilliant players, but for some reason they are unable to perform as a unit, which is strange when you consider that most of the team are Crusaders. Their performance was so bad that even the NZ crowd were booing them at the end of the game. I dont blame them.

It was a very strange AB performance, wasn't it? As you say, most of the team are Crusaders but it was like they'd never met till they took the field. I can only think that whatever John Mitchell wants them to do differs hugely from what the Crusaders coach had them doing.

Australia defeat NZ Maoris 27-23


This was easily the most exciting game of the weekend. The Maoris were down 27-6 and managed to come back late in the second half with a 3 try blitz. I dont know whether you had the same commentators or not Finbar, but the kiwi ones I had just about creamed themselves when the maoris got that third try.
In the end it was the kicks at goal that saved the lacklustre Wallabies from defeat. The game finished with an incredible 18 phases from the maori. Great game!

We had Oz commentators. They were actually quite fair - applauding the Maori performance. What really bothered me about the Wallaby effort was that, for all the talk of developing alternative methods, they seemed to play the same old game. OTOH, to be fair to Wendall Sailor, he fitted in well, and his tackle-breaking was very good.

None of the Tri-nations teams look particularly impressive at the moment, so hopefully things will improve soon.

Well, yes. I watched most of the SA -v- Wales match too. Talk about an orgy of incompetence.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Sorry, not much time this week-end.

A result : Argentina 28 - France 27...

Wow! Good for Argentina! Not to upset you Tamerlin, but Im kind of happy with that result because it shows Argentina are getting to be a real force in the rugby world, and perhaps this victory will help make rugby more popular in that part of the world. I tend to go for the underdog if NZ or Australia are not involved...

Caligastia : do you think someone here doesn't know why the New Zealand team is called the "all blacks" ? If yes, it could be interesting to tell the story behind this name.

Hint : this is not because they are dressed in black.

They got the name from a mistake in an english newspaper. The sentence was supposed to say "they played like they were all backs"...or something like that, but backs was misspelled "blacks" and the name stuck.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
We had Oz commentators. They were actually quite fair - applauding the Maori performance.

You would have laughed at the kiwi commentry. One of them commented on Latham's being unshaven with his socks around his ankles saying "Look at Latham...cool as."

[finbar]

Tee-hee. He hails from a tiny outback NSW town. He just doesn't know any better.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia

They got the name from a mistake in an english newspaper. The sentence was supposed to say "they played like they were all backs"...or something like that, but backs was misspelled "blacks" and the name stuck.

Thank God for Pommy sub-editors.

[Havak]

Guys, guys, guys, what am I going to do with you?

Finbar and I dont watch as much NH rugby as you, and you dont watch as much SH rugby as us

This is very very true, and I know my perspective is biased. However in the cold light of day Jack would need to get past Johnson, Grewcock and Kay to make our 22. It isn’t enough therefore to be a promising young player –he needs to be a proven International of great stature to get past those boys. And as I say I haven’t seen enough of him to know if he is that. But my point is I do not think he would simply walk into the England side in any way, shape or form.

Smith is different. I have seen him play in the flesh and he has no way lived up to what I was expecting from Finbar’s original mentions of him. Sure he is great at the breakdown if he gets a ref who is suitably “laissez faire”, but on the back foot he struggles more than some Celts I have seen, he tends to give penalties away and not be able to adjust to refs who are penalising him so he keeps giving the same penalties? He still has promise, and he’s a good player – but he is not one of the greats yet for me.

But it does bring us back to your excellent point about different viewing experience as to dismiss Neil Back and Lewis Moody with ‘spherical objects’ does seem to condone the point? If they aren’t better than George then they certainly aren’t worse either.

Fortunately we will get what we want very soon – for I can make you happy Caligastia by letting you know that this November England play all three Tri-nations countries at Twickers on consecutive weekends – we don’t need to wait until next year at all.

The thing is, though, it has to be done well because, with so many players committed, there are holes all over the place.

Absolutely – and you make us pay when you find them. We can still learn much from yourselves and the Kiwis about exploiting opportunities. As a total guess I would say we convert perhaps a half of the comparative opportunities we get. I blame our girly backs

It's one of the great sights in rugby.

I have a vague memory of McQueen referring to it as cheating – now when was that?

Actually, I'm working on a means of filtering out our French friends' posts in order to maintain the very fair and reasonable situation in which we outnumber you.

I have only one question. If England are so good, why don't they clean up the 6 Nations every year against - in certainly 4 cases - second-rate opposition?

It’s actually very easy to answer this – all five games are “cup finals”. Everyone in that competition wants to beat England. I’m deadly serious when I say to you that the Welsh and Scots count their campaign a success if they lose every other game but beat England (the Irish like to beat us but drink regardless afterwards). How do you counter that kind of passion???

It’s also true that all those “trip ups” have been away fixtures – and as my French friends will tell you this years loss in France was no disgrace to England – they just met a French team that was on fire a la semi-final of RWC99. We wanted to meet the French side that walked out for the final of RWC instead.

I only got to see one game over the weekend – RSA-Wales – and it damn near oput me to sleep. A terrible display by the Boks, unless they lift it big time they will draw a blank in the tri-nations.

The Wallaby-Maori game looked tight? The report I read on NZ was a big thumbs down, and the French result stunned me totally. England face the Pumas next weekend with a devlopment squad – hope we do better. France have to take on Australia next - they will need to improve drastically?