Apartheid in Israel

[BlackStone]

Originally posted by Ron Jeremy
Hi. I just moved in next door. Say- it's really hot. Is it OK if I take a shower here?

......that picture is creepy

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Ron Jeremy
Hi. I just moved in next door. Say- it's really hot. Is it OK if I take a shower here?

Sure, why dont you do my wife while youre at it.

[S. Kroeze]

Originally posted by panag
hi ,
please check again on your dates and numbers , ........
they are completely wrong , ..........
and maybe , just maybe , you should come to see for yourself , ......this way you can learn a lot , and learn about the correct situation , ...............
have a nice day

I hope you will publish a scholarly study soon. Please do!
Do you own a time machine?

[Ned]

OK, S. Kroeze, do you agree then that if the Israeli's and Arabs are the same race, Israel cannot be guilty of the crime of Apartheid under the ICC.

If you do agree with this, and you still believe Israel is guilty of Apartheid, we need a definition of what you mean by that term.

BTW, I think it is fairly obvious that Israel discriminates against the Arabs primarily because they are at war with them. Much of what you cite simply would not have occured had there been peace.

[Sirotnikov]

S. Kroeze, while I don't have the time to argue with each of the sources, let's assume they are mostly correct.

What leads you think that this is a matter of appartheid?

As it seems to me, it's simply a state using radical means to defends itself and support itself.

I see no basis for any form of racism.

The government took the land it needed to assure Israel would exist as a country. It had no intention of opressing any of the people living there, because of their ethnicity or anything similar.

Let's take Russia for example. It widened it's borders by occupying neighbouring countries and taking control of their lands. However, there is no basis for "appartheid" there.

[Natan]

MOBIUS:

The point of it being a Jewish State, is that it will never be a secular state - by definition, it HAS to descriminate against non Jewish otherwise it would be a Jewish state!!!

Wouldn't this mean that not only is every single Arab country an Apartheid state, not only every single Islamic country one as well, but also that you yourself are living in an Apartheid state, since Anglican Christianity is the official religion?

[Natan]

BTW, at the same time that Israel was being created a million people were murdered in sectarian violence on the Indian subcontinent to create Pakistan, an Islamic state. Are you filled with the same sort of rage towards Pakistan, which is a military dictatorship with so-called "Sharia law" that you are towards Israel?

[Ned]

Nathan, I don't know about NZ, but the Catholic folks in Ireland and Northern Ireland can certain fill you in on the English-Anglican apartheid system. I for one, am a descendant of a Irish refugee family from 1850. The English, IMHO, are even today a highly bigoted and racist country, as withness by our good friend Morbius who calls the Jews who settled in Palestine prior to '48 "theives" when in fact they were refugees fleeing oppression and death.

[Ned]

BTW, I do not share my negative opinion of the British about Blair. He may be, as far as I can tell, the best PM the British have ever had.

[moomin]

Ned, what do you think of Americans of Irish descent who contribute money to the IRA?

[Ned]

I understand their hatred, but do not support their contributions to a terrorist organization. I have some Brit friends from London who really feel strongly about the IRA. Terror is unacceptable.

[moomin]

I can't really understand their hatred but that's basically their prerogative as long as they don't support terrorism, yes.

[Caligastia]

Im still waiting for you to "run rings" around me Mobius ole buddy

[Panag]

Originally posted by BlackStone



You have a very wooden way of talking. You have said that what he is claiming is wrong. Do you have any substitute fugures. And when you say he should come over and check it out for himself would it also include some research diving in the redsea and surveying some of the beach life?

hi ,

as for the diving , no problem , even for "rebreathers" ,....
beach life , ........;hmmm , sure , you cant believe it , ....
as for the Red-sea , hmm , well the gulf of A is better then Hurgada , Egypt , its like , clean water and pure dead mud , ....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

any person who has access to the internet can find the right figure's , ........

okay some site's are in Hebrew but most have an english page , ....

for those of you that want to read something good , try "heroes of Israel by Chaim Herzog , ..........more info upon request .

many years ago , one could say that the young age had something to do with it , a group of us went to live in the liberated areas , for 4 months , with arab's , .....it though a lot , ....so much even that a lengthy raport was written , ...

its main points , pretty much contradict everything what is written by some people here who are "pro" pal , ...........

all that one would have to do is follow the post's of Eli , Dal , Sir and some other poster's from Israel , aldo their age and their lesson's in live dont show everything , cause they have not been , (guy's dont get this wrong !) thankfully facing the conflict as we do , .......
however its painfull for some people to talk about it or even to go in a conversation about it .
ask the other poster's from Israel , 99.99% knows someone who is or has been the fictim from a war that was started a couple days before our nation was born , .......just the cheer impact on the society is so huge , you cant imagine it , ........

we could start to post pic's , evindence , the whole 9 yards , but this would be unfair to the site owners , they would have to spent a lot of time , money and server space on it , ....and we say no , there is enough on the net , ....point

if you want numbers , contact us , even off thread , and info in documents shall be provided to you .

the best that the people can do is to go to Israel , if you are a student you can even earn credits (!) , its a great way to learn about the situation , and there are planty of options and programs one could choose from , if one needs help , (sincere) we shall do so .

now to all of you , have a nice day , no matter what religion , ID , color or race you are from , gay , lesbian , bi , it does not matter

[MOBIUS]

Interesting. You’re the one who has a problem with my posting style, and yet you’re the one who started with the ‘insults’ so I just replied in kind. No big deal I thought, I figure we can take what we dish out, right?

Apparently not.

So I graciously said I was sorry if I had offended you (thinking you were very thin skinned, being as you were the original protagonist…), assuming that perhaps you would refrain from you own combative stance…

Apparently not.

Fine.

Not true, a huge number is fictitous. The british kept tight control over immigration, very little illegal immigration was possible.

Geez, Cal. Don’t make it any easier…
In the 20’s the Jewish population of Palestine was only about 11%. The only reason they might make up a third of the population by ’48 is because of illegal immigration.

Why else do you think that the Jews went to war with the British – the people who had promised them a homeland through the highly questionable Balfour Declaration? (although it clearly stated that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine' ) Because in ’35 60,000 Jews emigrated there, causing an Arab revolt ‘based on the fear that outsiders were going to take over their country’. After that point, the British had tight controls on immigration until after WWII.

Then because the British refused to admit 100,000 Jews after WWII, they came in illegally instead with the help of Jewish terrorists, who weren’t above bombing the odd soft target (such as the King David Hotel )

Check this site out to see what the British had to contend with… http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Palestine/rn.htm how many do you think slipped through the net? I’m willing to wager that far more made it through than were stopped! Take time to read the entire site – it is obvious from your wholesale ignorance that you have much to learn!

The point is that this was an illegal and hostile (witness the ferocious defence put up by the immigrants!) mass immigration organised the Zionist movement in order to artificially increase Palestine’s Jewish population and so create as large a Jewish state as possible at the expense of the local population!

Remember 11%.

They would make up one third the population of Palestine in 48, why do you try to deny them there say?

I don’t – just a proportional one! One within a secular government, and not a racist one! Why do you try to assert their right to a state of their own, when they have less right than the Maoris, when it is racist?

Are you saying they must live without voice in a muslim state, even though they don't wish it?

No, I’m saying that they should have taken part in the creation of a secular Palestine – a Jewish state AND an Arab state at the same time! A compromise based on democratic principles but with a clear constitution allowing both peoples to practise their faiths without fear of persecution. But then the Zionists would never have accepted that – they wanted Israel and they didn’t care from whom they took it!

Nonsense. The partition plan was based on population totals.

Bingo! Brain of NZ gets it at last! Now you can begin to understand why the Zionists wanted to get as many Jews into ‘The Promised Land’ as quickly as possible! Gold Star Cal, I knew you could do it!

The Muslims you favor tried to bully the minority Jews into having no state on their own land!

It’s NOT their land – it hadn’t been for over a thousand years! Why should they have their own state anyway??? Why not be part of a secular state?

They lost, so it's just to bad...for them.

I’ll remember that if you ever become the victim of a crime – you lost, too bad!

You can't "occupy" what's yours.

WAS theirs – over a thousand years ago!!!!!!!!!

I take it you’re in favour of the American Indians getting America back, or the Aborigines getting Australia back… The Maoris getting NZ back?

IMO those peoples have far more right than the Jews!

It's also interesting how you stress that the more numerous should always get their way

That’s called D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-Y, you silly boy…

Some might say that someone with no argument seeks to divert attention with minutia, as youre attempting to do, further proof your talking through your arse(with all due respect ).

Some might say you’re deliberately avoiding the argument by seeking insult me instead. What a fantastic way to convince people that you’re right…

More nonsense. The Pals want the "right" to force the Israelis into the islamic religion, force them to live as strangers in their own homeland, and strip their woman of many rights, and that is pure garbage. No thinking operson would want to be committed to such a fate.

R-i-i-ght… The Palestinians want their country back! If they got the whole of the pre ’67 land back, they would probably settle for that. At least the extremists who want ‘to throw the Jews back into the sea’ would probably lose their popular support and become relatively insignificant… Apparently though, you think that Apartheid in Israel is OK? That would make you a racist, wouldn’t it?

Running rings around me?

I’d saying showing you up as a hypocritical supporter of racist policies, whilst knowing nothing about the illegal mass immigration of Jews into Israel before ‘independence’, would constitute as ‘running rings around you’.

That and exposing your double standard (I’ve used ‘hypocritical’ once already!) of crying wolf about the ‘arrogant tone’ in my posts…

Im still waiting for you to "run rings" around me Mobius ole buddy

Sorry O Charming Poster, it would appear that unlike some people, I do have a life outside of Poly…

Let the games continue!