Race mixing

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Tingkai


I don't think this one biological race theory will ever happen. Inter-racial marriages will swing back and forth.

My grandmother was white, my grandfather was Chinese, my mother looks predominately white.

My father is chinese, my sisters and I look predominately Chinese (make sense when you think that three of four grandparents are Chinese)

My sister's husband is white, their two boys look white (husband's grandparents are white (four), my sister's grandparents are three Chinese, one white so the kids g-grandparents are five white, three Chinese)

If one of the boys marries a chinese girl then their kids will have five white great-great-grandparents and 11 Chinese great-great-grandparents so that child will likely look Chinese. If the wife is white then three Chinese g-g-grandparents and 13 white g-g-grandparents, the child will likely look white.

Edit: changed references to grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great grandparents.

Once mixed never unmixed (except for slow evolutionary crawl). It's an entropy thing...

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Does anyone doubt my accusation that Caligastia is racist now? Hell, I'm gonna go one better. Cali's a white supremicist. There's no point in arguing with scum like this. He's not gonna change his mind. He thinks that other races are inferior, he is opposed to doing anything that would ameliorate the effects of white racism, he wants to pander to white racism by lowering or banning cetain races from immigrating. He may as well just come out and admit that he wants the US to be a whites-only country.

Go the **** back to New Zealand, you useless ****!

Where exactly did I say that the white race is superior? I said that race mixing is a good thing biologically. Is this what a white supremacist would say? No.

The whole point of this thread is to question whether we are moving too fast in our efforts to improve biologically. Is the biological benefit worth the social cost? This point seems to have escaped you in your outrage.

Race mixing can also be a good thing culturally because without some cultural diversity, culture can stagnate, but too much cultural diversity can divide.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Is it so hard for you to understand that race can be a factor in some situations but not others? For example if a movie is being made about Napoleon then they are going to need a white actor, but if a company wants to hire a computer tech it doesnt matter what race the person is.

Movies are casted to look a certain way. It would be great if looks didn't matter, but it's not directly a racial decision. They need someone the audience would relate to as Napoleon, and discriminate based on look. They probably wouldn't cast a woman as Napoleon either, doesn't mean it's sexist. Like any other job, actors need to be qualified to perform their roles. Because of the nature of the job, an actor's looks are part of that qualification.

Immigration is a different matter. We don't have to have a population that looks a certain way, and definitely shouldn't have our government dictating what it looks like.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Ramo
Then why aren't you advocating unlimited immigration? Surely that's the best way to achieve ethnic homogeneity

Biologically, yes. Socially? I have my doubts. As I said, I am in favour of race mixing because of the biological benefits (adn some cultural). My question is are we moving too fast?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


My hunch is the "one race" he favors is whites,

No its not. A race composed entirely of whites could benefit greatly from small mixtures from the best the other races have to offer. The ideal is to have a race composed of the best specimens of all races.

[Aeson]

The whole point of this thread is to question whether we are moving too fast in our efforts to improve biologically.

No. We don't structure immigration to improve biologically either. That would be wrong as well.

Is the biological benefit worth the social cost?

We aren't trying to engineer the human race through forced breeding. People have a right to procreate with whomever they choose. It shouldn't have anything to do with immigration.

The social cost? Bigotry is bred through segregation and discrimination. Further discrimination would just lead to further ethnic/racial tensions.

My question is are we moving too fast?

Moving too slowly, and in some cases (more specific quotas in the 1990 act for one) in the wrong direction.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Caligastia
No its not. A race composed entirely of whites could benefit greatly from small mixtures from the best the other races have to offer. The ideal is to have a race composed of the best specimens of all races.

And the government should never have anything to do with promoting this 'ideal'. Procreation is a choice made on an individual level.

Are you advocating that the government try to regulate interaction between acceptable "specimens" by means of immigration?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Aeson
No. We don't structure immigration to improve biologically either. That would be wrong as well.

Immigration is already structured in a way that favors biological improvement, whether we realize it or not.

We aren't trying to engineer the human race through forced breeding. People have a right to procreate with whomever they choose. It shouldn't have anything to do with immigration.

Whether we are trying to or not, there is a lot of racial mixing going on in the US, which is biologically a good thing.

The social cost? Bigotry is bred through segregation and discrimination. Further discrimination would just lead to further ethnic/racial tensions.

Im not advocating segregation, its too late to do anything about the people who are already here.

Moving too slowly, and in some cases (more specific quotas in the 1990 act for one) in the wrong direction.

Large scale race mixing undoubtedly forces many people to abandon bigotry, but at the same time it appears that it creates at least as much as it eliminates.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Aeson
And the government should never have anything to do with promoting this 'ideal'. Procreation is a choice made on an individual level.

I agree, but at the moment the govt is promoting the next best thing, which is a race consisting of all specimens of all races. Not forcibly on an individual basis, but through general immigration policies.

Are you advocating that the government try to regulate interaction between acceptable "specimens" by means of immigration?

No, thats not feasable.

[Tingkai]

Cali: Everytime you put up a new post, you dig yourself deeper into the ground. The more you post, the more you come off as a neo-Nazi

Originally posted by Caligastia
Im not advocating segregation, its too late to do anything about the people who are already here.

So you like the idea of segregation, but you think it is too late to do it?

Originally posted by Caligastia
Large scale race mixing undoubtedly forces many people to abandon bigotry, but at the same time it appears that it creates at least as much as it eliminates.

Cali claims that the US now has large scale "race mixing" since 1965. This "race mixing" creates as much racism as it eliminates. Therefore, according to the logic of Cali, Americans are just as racist as they were in 1965. Ya right.

Originally posted by Caligastia
Race mixing can also be a good thing culturally because without some cultural diversity, culture can stagnate, but too much cultural diversity can divide.

So you have all of these individual and seperate cultures. According to the logic of Cali, if you add a bit of Culture B and C into Culture A, Culture A will become seperate from other cultures. Whereas before, Culture A was, well, seperate.

Originally posted by Caligastia
No its not. A race composed entirely of whites could benefit greatly from small mixtures from the best the other races have to offer. The ideal is to have a race composed of the best specimens of all races.

So Cali's ideal would be to kill off the undesirables specimens of all races. Where have we heard that one before.

[Aeson]

Immigration is already structured in a way that favors biological improvement, whether we realize it or not.

You are muddling intent and effect. The intent behind removing racial quotas in immigration is to give everyone a fair shot. It is not to genetically improve the population. Genetic improvement is a good thing, as long as it is voluntary, which it is under the current system. The difference between forced and voluntary is huge, even if the end result is the same.

I agree, but at the moment the govt is promoting the next best thing, which is a race consisting of all specimens of all races. Not forcibly on an individual basis, but through general immigration policies.

I don't think promoting is the right word. The government is keeping out of making racial discriminations when dealing with immigration for the most part. One of the effects of this is more racial diversity. If only people of a certain race wanted to immigrate, that effect would change though. We are not forcing racial diversity, rather allowing it through individual choice. That is the difference. To disallow it would be wrong.

Large scale race mixing undoubtedly forces many people to abandon bigotry, but at the same time it appears that it creates at least as much as it eliminates.

It doesn't create bigotry unless you compare it to a completely pure racial environment where even the idea of other races isn't present. People don't become bigots because of integration though. That is a personal choice that is made regardless of what other races are present. You could put all the KKK in Idaho, ship out all non-whites, and the KKK still would hate. And worse, their children would never be exposed to any ideas other than hatred.

On the other hand, a child who grows up in a diverse environment is more likely to not consider race an important and divisive concept.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Cali: Everytime you put up a new post, you dig yourself deeper into the ground. The more you post, the more you come off as a neo-Nazi

Neo-nazis can see positives in race mixing? News to me.

So you like the idea of segregation, but you think it is too late to do it?

No, segregation is not the answer. As I said, there has to be some racial mixing for the species to improve.

Cali claims that the US now has large scale "race mixing" since 1965. This "race mixing" creates as much racism as it eliminates. Therefore, according to the logic of Cali, Americans are just as racist as they were in 1965. Ya right.

I never really made the statement. I just said it seems that way to me. Why dont you tell me why it doesnt seem that way to you?

So you have all of these individual and seperate cultures. According to the logic of Cali, if you add mix a bit of Culture B and C into Culture A, Culture A will become seperate from other cultures. Whereas before, Culture A was, well, seperate.

I dont want cultures to be totally seperate either, I just think that its in a nation's best interests to have common ideals. If you have too many different cultures and ideals it creates disunity.

So Cali's ideal would be to kill off the undesirables specimens of all races. Where have we heard that one before.

No, thats not what I said at all. I said that for the best results race mixing should take place between the best specimens of each race. Failing that, mixing of all specimens is still good.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Aeson
You are muddling intent and effect. The intent behind removing racial quotas in immigration is to give everyone a fair shot. It is not to genetically improve the population. Genetic improvement is a good thing, as long as it is voluntary, which it is under the current system. The difference between forced and voluntary is huge, even if the end result is the same.

I agree, the positive biological effect is not intentional.

I don't think promoting is the right word. The government is keeping out of making racial discriminations when dealing with immigration for the most part. One of the effects of this is more racial diversity. If only people of a certain race wanted to immigrate, that effect would change though. We are not forcing racial diversity, rather allowing it through individual choice. That is the difference. To disallow it would be wrong.

Again, perhaps its not intentional, and I agree that disallowing it completely would be wrong, but are we going too far?

It doesn't create bigotry unless you compare it to a completely pure racial environment where even the idea of other races isn't present. People don't become bigots because of integration though. That is a personal choice that is made regardless of what other races are present. You could put all the KKK in Idaho, ship out all non-whites, and the KKK still would hate. And worse, their children would never be exposed to any ideas other than hatred.

I think that racial predjudice is something that is "hard wired" to a certain extent. It is correct to say that race mixing doesnt create bigotry, but it seems to exacerbate it.

On the other hand, a child who grows up in a diverse environment is more likely to not consider race an important and divisive concept.

Thats probably true, but does this have enough of an effect on society that it will reduce racial hatred to acceptable levels?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Caligastia
I think that racial predjudice is something that is "hard wired" to a certain extent. It is correct to say that race mixing doesnt create bigotry, but it seems to exacerbate it.

I doubt there is any genetic reasoning going on in bigotry. There is a basic fear of the unknown that is instinctual which can lead to bigotry in a non-integrated environment. That is the main reason why integration helps decrease bigotry.

Thats probably true, but does this have enough of an effect on society that it will reduce racial hatred to acceptable levels?

Yes, you just have to give it time. The alternative is to continue building up seperatist and racial sentiment re-enforced by the idea that segregation is valid and necessary. One way fixes the problem, the other is the problem. I don't see any question as to which way to pursue.

[Aeson]

I think that racial predjudice is something that is "hard wired" to a certain extent. It is correct to say that race mixing doesnt create bigotry, but it seems to exacerbate it.

This is a tough one.

There definitely can be an increase in tension between opposed groups when they are in close proximity to each other. There is more likely to be actual violence between them than if they were seperated obviously. It isn't an argument against integration though, as the groups segregate themselves, which is the problem.

Immigration policies (current) really have no bearing on this problem either. There are segregated communities already present in the US, and limiting immigration one way or another isn't going to change this. Promoting a racially biased policy most likely would further any tensions between the communities, one claiming favoritism for another (with good reason).

Education, protection of human rights, and time are probably the only ways that these divisions can be lessoned.