Race mixing

[Caligastia]

Its not the best perspective we have, but being the most common one it is a cohesive force.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Caligastia
ok, well I guess the only way to know the answer to my question for sure is to wait and see...

You could answer your question by looking at the history of immigration to North America, but you wouldn't like the answer.

There have always been waves of immigration that change the social fabric of Canada and the United States. The new immigrants often faced extensive prejudices, and were prejudiced themselves, but over time they became part of the new society, adding to and absorbing from the existing cultures.

A case in point, during the late 1840s, more than 300,000 Irish landed in Canada. As Roman Catholics, they had different values from the existing English-Canadians, and as English Catholics, they had different values from the French Catholics. While they were initially seen as outsiders, they soon became just another part of Canadian society.

The vibrancy of Canada and the United States owes much to a willingness to accept immigrants from around the world.

[ZaphodBeeblebrx]

As a Jew I feel a need to jump in here.

My People have been on both sides of this question, and let me tell you, the Grass IS, always Greener.

On the upside, Caligastia seems to be more a Eugenicist, than a Racist, which depending on the Methods that he advocates, might be a bettering of the lot for Everyone, rather than just a few. If, on the other hand, he's for Mass-Murder, well . . .

[faded glory]

Hey its Zaphdod! lol.....wow I kicked your ass in PBEM sometime ago.


edit-forget it

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tingkai
You could answer your question by looking at the history of immigration to North America, but you wouldn't like the answer.

There have always been waves of immigration that change the social fabric of Canada and the United States. The new immigrants often faced extensive prejudices, and were prejudiced themselves, but over time they became part of the new society, adding to and absorbing from the existing cultures.

A case in point, during the late 1840s, more than 300,000 Irish landed in Canada. As Roman Catholics, they had different values from the existing English-Canadians, and as English Catholics, they had different values from the French Catholics. While they were initially seen as outsiders, they soon became just another part of Canadian society.

The vibrancy of Canada and the United States owes much to a willingness to accept immigrants from around the world.

Yes, but the immigration of 300,000 irish, while creating cultural predjudice, wouldnt have created racial predjudice on top of that. Or were the irish looked upon as being a different race?

I agree with your last sentence in particular, but I wouldnt say that the willingness to accept immigrants is directly proportional to the vibrancy of the US and Canada. I think there has to be a limit to our willingness to accept immigrants. Canada is a good example of a country that is too open to immigrants. All you have to do to live in Canada with all the benefits of a citizen is turn up on the border and claim refugee status. This is a problem, as many groups like Al-Quaeda are now looking to Canada as the perfect place to launch attacks on the US.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by ZaphodBeeblebrx
On the upside, Caligastia seems to be more a Eugenicist, than a Racist, which depending on the Methods that he advocates, might be a bettering of the lot for Everyone, rather than just a few. If, on the other hand, he's for Mass-Murder, well . . .

What you say is a reasonably correct assessment of my motivation, but do I really have to state that I am not for mass murder? I support non-coercive eugenics.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Yes, but the immigration of 300,000 irish, while creating cultural predjudice, wouldnt have created racial predjudice on top of that. Or were the irish looked upon as being a different race?

What's the difference between cultural prejudice and racial prejudice. It all has the same effect.

Originally posted by Caligastia
I think there has to be a limit to our willingness to accept immigrants. Canada is a good example of a country that is too open to immigrants. All you have to do to live in Canada with all the benefits of a citizen is turn up on the border and claim refugee status. This is a problem, as many groups like Al-Quaeda are now looking to Canada as the perfect place to launch attacks on the US.

We do have immigration limits for economic reasons. Refugees are vetted, just like everywhere else. As for security, Canada is about the same as the States.



[/QUOTE]

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tingkai

What's the difference between cultural prejudice and racial prejudice. It all has the same effect.

Yes, but unless the Irish were viewed as being a different race then they would only have faced cultural predjudice, not a combination of the two.

We do have immigration limits for economic reasons. Refugees are vetted, just like everywhere else. As for security, Canada is about the same as the States.

Actually it isnt. Canada is far more liberal about immigration than the US. I saw a fantastic documentary about this a couple of weeks ago. It had a lot of interviews with immigration officers etc...interesting

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Yes, but unless the Irish were viewed as being a different race then they would only have faced cultural predjudice, not a combination of the two.

So if someone refuses to associate with you because of your culture, is that somehow better than a person who refuses to associate with you because of your culture and your colour?

You still have not acknowledge the fact that attitudes changed.

By the way, the immigration did not cause the prejudice. The English dispised the Irish before the mass immigration occured.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Tingkai

So if someone refuses to associate with you because of your culture, is that somehow better than a person who refuses to associate with you because of your culture and your colour?

For a bigot, its less reason to hate isnt it?

You still have not acknowledge the fact that attitudes changed.

Attitudes have changed, but have they changed enough? Look at the Rodney King riots in LA, violent racial hatred still is a problem on both sides.

By the way, the immigration did not cause the prejudice. The English dispised the Irish before the mass immigration occured.

Right, but sometimes people are ok with other races and cultures until they move next door. I bet some of the more tolerant english who had irish move into their neighbourhoods bigoted because of it.

[MrFun]

Or how about the killing of the black man in Jasper, Texas when the black man was pulled behind a truck and torn to bits and pieces by a couple of white men??

Overall, attitudes have changed. In the 1930's, that lynching of the black man in Jasper, Texas would been the basis to organize a lynching festival, and invite all whites in the local area for a coon barbeque.

But, when this lynching occured in our contemporary society, those two white racists were seriously out of step with mainstream, Southern society that no longer celebrates lynching of blacks.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Tingkai

What's the difference between cultural prejudice and racial prejudice. It all has the same effect.

[/QUOTE]

Well a person can change their cultural affiliation. For instance they can actually stop demanding the removal of English signs in Quebec. Thats cultural prejudice. No one has to stick with that though.


Only Michael Jackson can change his race. Or is it his sex?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ethelred

Well a person can change their cultural affiliation. [/QUOTE]

That should be self-evident. The effects of cultural and racial prejudice are the same. A person who is lynched because of their religion suffers the same harm as a person lynched because of their race and the same harm as a person lynched because of their race and religion.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Attitudes have changed, but have they changed enough? Look at the Rodney King riots in LA, violent racial hatred still is a problem on both sides.

The LA riots are another example that answers your concerns.

Your initial premise was that immigration causes hatred and violence, yet the LA riots were not sparked by new immigration. It was the result of the long-standing grievences of the black community towards a perceived white justice system.

Korean-American storeowners got caught in the cross-fire, but that was due to economic differences not because of immigration.

The basic problem with Cali's theory is that he assumes immigration creates new prejudices. The reality is that bigots of any race don't need a reason to hate. If there are no immigrants then they will just turn on other people who are already there. If there are 10 immigrants, they will be hated just as much as if there are 1,000 immigrants.

Cali thinks that the US should slow down immigration, or institute race-based immigration rules, because there are bigots who hate immigrants.

Why should the US sacrifice economic growth just to pander to the bigots?

[MrFun]

Ting, was this latest post of yours to back up my last post??