Palestinians destroy Israeli tank

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune


I meant the outcry about Rabin´s murder. Perhaps more than one person in Israel deplored the act, but seemingly not too many.

WHAT???? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR GODDAMMED MIND???????

To assume makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me".

I'm sure any Israeli will tell you that you are dead wrong here. There was an outcry in my congregation here, most certainly, and we're all Zionists.

[Comrade Tribune]

'The Israeli also didn't want Rabin's deal. '

Quoting you.

But Rabin seemed quite willing to go ahead with it. Murdering him was the most sure-fire option to stop him.

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
'The Israeli also didn't want Rabin's deal. '

Quoting you.

But Rabin seemed quite willing to go ahead with it. Murdering him was the most sure-fire option to stop him.

Israeli. Singular. One Israeli. I'm getting tired of repeating myself. Yes, this guy was horrible. Yes, he was Jewish. No, that does not incriminate the rest of us.

[Comrade Tribune]

I´d call the fact that the only Israeli Prime Minister ever coming up with an acceptable peace proposal was murdered an interesting coincidence.

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
I´d call the fact that the only Israeli Prime Minister ever coming up with an acceptable peace proposal was murdered an interesting coincidence.

I'd call it horrible. Just because Martin Luther King was killed doesn't mean the entire USA was white supremacist.

All it takes is 1 crazy to bring down a politician. You don't need any portion of the population to agree with you.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune


Let´s say the outcry among Zionists was limited.

Rabin was Zionist, the Labour party is Zionist, the vast majority of the Israeli Jews are Zionist. So the outcry was pretty big among Zionists.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
I´d call the fact that the only Israeli Prime Minister ever coming up with an acceptable peace proposal was murdered an interesting coincidence.

What have the Palistinanians offered?

What does Hamas offer?
What does Islamic Jihad offer?
What does Arafat offer?

Oh yeah, death to Israel. Push them into the sea. Thats what they offer.

[Eli]

The car of Nazia Abu-Saba, a known Hamas terrorist, mysteriously exploded in Jenin. Abu-Saba died, and few kids playing nearby were injured.
The Palestinians report that an Israeli helicopter was hovering above the city during the explosion, but it didnt fire missiles.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Sprayber
What does Arafat offer?

Arafat offered reasonable compromise 25 years ago, already.

Back then, he often visited Austria, as a guest of our then head of government, Kreisky. They were friends, and agreed on most things.

Kreisky was our greatest statesman in the previous century. And, btw, he was Jewish.

[Goingonit]

What did Arafat offer 25 years ago?

BTW, about leaders being assasinated for making deals, look at Egypt and Sadat.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
'The Israeli also didn't want Rabin's deal. '

Quoting you.

But Rabin seemed quite willing to go ahead with it. Murdering him was the most sure-fire option to stop him.

Rabin was murdered in rally of support for which thousands turned up.

The reason why Rabin was not supported more wasn't some will to dominate the land, but the anger over prevalent palestinian terracts, just like now.


I must stress out again, Comrade, your ideas about Israel, Jews and Zionism, are no doubt interesting. However they are very very far from the truth.

I dont' know whether those are assumptions or speculations, which are strengthened by ambigous international media reports, or simply relying on some very anti-israeli biased source.

But Israelis, Zionists and Jews are really not the evil opressive monsters you think them to be.

We're simply trying to defend our lives and coutnry against a group of people, who from the beginning of our country had a mindset to destroy us. We could go about it differently from how you would, but that's all.

There's a very small group of people, mostly ultra-nationalist or ultra-religious or ultra-mistrusting who hold views close to what you imagine the view of a common israeli to be.

Arafat offered reasonable compromise 25 years ago, already.

Seriously?

I seemed to think he murdered athletes, attempted to murder heads of state (jordan), hijacked planes, started civil wars (lebanon).

Perhaps you know his good doing and rational twin brother?

Back then, he often visited Austria, as a guest of our then head of government, Kreisky. They were friends, and agreed on most things.

Arafat was, and is a liar.

In the 70s (iirc) he covertly kidnapped some Soviet diplomats and pressured USSR to pressure Syria not to annihilate him. Overtly, he offered the soviets help in recovering the kidpnapped diplomats. to the soviet's surprise, the men he presented as those that will 'seek out and free russian diplomats' were the ones KGB suspected of carrying out the abduction.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
The reason why Rabin was not supported more wasn't some will to dominate the land, but the anger over prevalent palestinian terracts, just like now.

While I do not confuse Zionists, Israelis and Jews, you do confuse extremist Palestinian splinter groups (who hate Arafat), Arafat (whom said splinter groups would like to kill), and all Palestinians.

But Israelis, Zionists and Jews are really not the evil opressive monsters you think them to be.

Can you pleeease, stop pretending that I am the guy who wrote 'Mein Kampf'?

I said Kreisky was our best statesman of the last 100 years; had I thought he was an evil oppressive monster I would have said so. You always like to imply that Zionists are speaking, or have the right to speak, for all Jews. Tell that to Neturai Karta or Noam Chomsky.

We're simply trying to defend our lives and coutnry against a group of people, who from the beginning of our country had a mindset to destroy us.

They claim you did already destroy their country; let´s call this one unresolved.

There's a very small group of people, mostly ultra-nationalist or ultra-religious or ultra-mistrusting who hold views close to what you imagine the view of a common israeli to be.

But that group you mention seems to determine the policies. Do you think I believe most Americans are evil? They are not; but it´s still the Bushmen who determine American policy.

I seemed to think he murdered athletes, attempted to murder heads of state (jordan), hijacked planes, started civil wars (lebanon).

I think you are mixing him up with everybody, including the Baader-Meinhof gang.

In the 70s (iirc) he covertly kidnapped some Soviet diplomats and pressured USSR to pressure Syria not to annihilate him. Overtly, he offered the soviets help in recovering the kidpnapped diplomats. to the soviet's surprise, the men he presented as those that will 'seek out and free russian diplomats' were the ones KGB suspected of carrying out the abduction.

Enjoyed that story ; it doesn´t ring very plausible, though: If you messed with the Soviets like that, chances were you ended up dead. Last time I checked, Arafat was still among us. (Though, with Sharon, you don´t know how long.)

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
While I do not confuse Zionists, Israelis and Jews, you do confuse extremist Palestinian splinter groups (who hate Arafat), Arafat (whom said splinter groups would like to kill), and all Palestinians.

I have enough information from Israeli news agencies and Israeli intelligence services and Russian news services to determine that Arafat is in very good relations with splinter groups and is interested in giving them a free hand.

To prove that I once again metnion how he himself, not pressured by anyone, released the terrorists from jails in the first month of the intifada in oct 2000.

I don't confuse Palestinians with Palestinian leadership and Fanatics. I've mentioned that.

Can you pleeease, stop pretending that I am the guy who wrote 'Mein Kampf'?

I said Kreisky was our best statesman of the last 100 years; had I thought he was an evil oppressive monster I would have said so. You always like to imply that Zionists are speaking, or have the right to speak, for all Jews. Tell that to Neturai Karta or Noam Chomsky.

I remind you that most jews, whether or not are fulfuling the "call" of zionism or not, are zionists, ie believe in the jewish right to live in Israel under their own rule.

I'm not familiar with Neturai Karta.

Noam Chomsky I'm familiar with. He's a favourable wierdo with Extreme-lefist groups and anti-semitic types. I happen to read that his books are published by known anti-semitic grops in europe, and is befriended with some. It's not very uncommon for anti-semites to befriend jews - there was another jew who claimed the bible and later additions to it are root of all evil. What he did, is interpert things, in ways which are not "standard" and are not suitable for the bible.

Indeed, one could find justification for many bad things in the bible. But it's the choises you make in interpertation that count.

They claim you did already destroy their country; let´s call this one unresolved.

I'd be very interested in seeing what self-governed country exactly they had in 1947.

I remind you again, that many of the arabs living here now also immigrated to palestine along with the jews, since it was becoming a pretty successfull area during the jewish settlement in the 19th century and later under brittish mandate.

But that group you mention seems to determine the policies. Do you think I believe most Americans are evil? They are not; but it´s still the Bushmen who determine American policy.

?
Had that group determined the policies we wouldn't be sitting, waiting for Arafat to finally take action against terrorists, but would have long ago built Temple 3 and blown up Al-aqsa mosque.

I do not believe Bushmen are evil. Infact I believe they finally are right since they don't use appeasment which is an idiotic strategy that can't deal with terrorists.

I think you are mixing him up with everybody, including the Baader-Meinhof gang.

I think you're not as familiar about arafat's ties with other palestinian groups. He is after all head of the PLO.

Further more, tell me, did you know he is responsible for creating the tension between muslims and christians in lebanon and used the civil war to gain power?

Enjoyed that story ; it doesn´t ring very plausible, though: If you messed with the Soviets like that, chances were you ended up dead.

Not true. They couldn't really prove it, and Arafat was a major political player in those days.

Still, the soviet communist party was lead by scum similar to Arafat. Scum that taught guys like Arafat everything they know, so they didn't hate him that much.

Last time I checked, Arafat was still among us. (Though, with Sharon, you don´t know how long.)

Tell me, if you think Arafat had nothing to do with the terror in the middle east, what infact has he done?

[Goingonit]

Noam Chomsky is a self-hating Jew. This means that he wishes to reject his Jewish identity by discrediting Judaism as a whole. He is just as biased as anyone in this issue.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
I have enough information from Israeli news agencies and Israeli intelligence services and Russian news services to determine that Arafat is in very good relations with splinter groups and is interested in giving them a free hand.

You occasionally meet real Palestinian extremists on forums like this one. Two things about them are easily determined:

1 They are raving mad.
2 They want Arafat´s head on a pole.

Common sense suggests those are the people responsible for irrational acts of terrorism.

I'm not familiar with Neturai Karta.

But you sure know there are Jews, both religious and secular, who do not consider themselves represented by Zionism.

Noam Chomsky I'm familiar with. He's a favourable wierdo with Extreme-lefist groups and anti-semitic types. I happen to read that his books are published by known anti-semitic grops in europe, and is befriended with some. It's not very uncommon for anti-semites to befriend jews - there was another jew who claimed the bible and later additions to it are root of all evil. What he did, is interpert things, in ways which are not "standard" and are not suitable for the bible.

That is positively untrue. Noam Chomsky is respected by political scientists around the world, and his writings serve as the base of university courses. No one except lunatics has ever called him an anti-semite.

I do not believe Bushmen are evil. Infact I believe they finally are right since they don't use appeasment which is an idiotic strategy that can't deal with terrorists.

I believe that they are world´s most dangerous terrorists. Edit, afterthought: I am also not that sure that appeasement works against them, but what else can we do?

Tell me, if you think Arafat had nothing to do with the terror in the middle east, what infact has he done?

Arafat is certainly the leader of the Palestinian resistance struggle. What he has done is trying to contain the extremists on his own side -and you never give him credit for that. If he is offered a reasonable deal, he takes it. His agreement with Rabin was working, until Rabin was killed by an Israeli.