ATHEISTS Are Narrow Minded.

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Sure Frodo, I apologize.

Hey, if you want to be religious, that's a great start. Go with your conscience, but we are all naturally slanted towards Jesus in the end. If you truely follow your heart, it will lead to God. Every time.

Well, I didn't say that I wanted to be religious. I do find religion interesting, though, and could concievably become religious if the circumstances favored it.

Are you sure everyone is slanted towards Jesus? What about the people who lived before him? What about people, like me, who read the New Testament with an open mind and yet don't convert? Is there something that I'm doing wrong? Usually when I follow my heart it doesn't lead to God, but to the unknown. Maybe I'm not satisfied with what I have found. How can this be resolved? Would you advise just trying to believe in God anyway, even if my belief is not sincere?

[Wiglaf]

- "ROTFLMAO! Tell that to remote african tribesmen, or say the Chinese." -

Why not? I'd say they turned it down just as well as you have - the Chinese mainly because of society, and the african tribesmen usually out of ignorance, depending on exactly what kind of tribesmen we're talking about here (what kind of culture were they born into? one that allows development of individual ideas to their fullest potential with no severe outside factors playing a role? again, you're being far too vague). Besides, lots of africans are catholics anyway, buddy.

- "As I reject the opinion that santa claus is real." -

Santa was an idea infused by the parents of the child and society; apparantly it turned out to be a false myth. Go figure, maybe atheism is the same way.

- "Are you sure everyone is slanted towards Jesus? What about the people who lived before him? What about people, like me, who read the New Testament with an open mind and yet don't convert? Is there something that I'm doing wrong? Usually when I follow my heart it doesn't lead to God, but to the unknown. Maybe I'm not satisfied with what I have found. How can this be resolved? Would you advise just trying to believe in God anyway, even if my belief is not sincere?" -

Follow your conscience. One way or another it leads to God, whether you know it or not. If something inside you says you never want to be religious, then don't convert against your will. That isn't your fault or problem. As long as you're open and everything - which believe it or not is pretty difficult. But possible.

[Bosh]

"Santa was an idea infused by the parents of the child and society"
Just like that whole "Jesus stopped being dead" thing.

[Asher]

Santa was an idea infused by the parents of the child and society; apparantly it turned out to be a false myth. Go figure, maybe atheism is the same way.

Actually, Wiglaf, for most people 'Santa' is analogous to 'God'. Many families (mine included) are religious (Protestant). I was always told that there was a God, we went to church, etc. Then many years ago I just couldn't take it any more. I don't accept things on blind faith, I need proof. There is no proof to be found for a God to exist, so thus I'm agnostic. So these parents tell there kids that there is a God (Santa) when a big number of them soon discover otherwise.

Some people still believe in Santa to this day (eh Wiglaf?).

[Victor Galis]

Waukeenar dogma:

Mercantile trade is the best road to enrichment. Increasing the general prosperity uys ever greater civilization and happiness for intelligent folk worldwide, bringing people closer to the Golden Age that lies ahead. Destroy no trade goods, raise no restrictios to trade, and propagate no malicious rumors that could harm someone's commerce. Give money freely to beggars and businesses, for the more coin everyone has, the greater the urge to spend and trade rather than hoard. To worship Waukeen is to know wealth. To guard your funds is to venerate her, and to share them well seeds your future success. Call on her in trade, and she will guide you in wise commerce. The bold find gold, the careful keep it, and the timid yield it up.

Altogether sensible philosophy, no? Perhaps it doesn't cover all aspects of life, but what makes the set of guidelines provided by Christianity better?

"Why not?"

-Because the human mind at birth is a mostly clean slate.

"Santa was an idea infused by the parents of the child and society; apparantly it turned out to be a false myth."

-Much like God. My grandparents tried hard to make me believe in God, but once I left Romania and lived with just my parents, they didn't encourage me either way, and I rejected God, leading me to believe that we're not predisposed to believe in God. If we were, then I would still be a believer, since no one has tried to turn me from the path which I was on earlier.

[Wiglaf]

- "Just like that whole "Jesus stopped being dead" thing." -

How did society bring up the idea of the resurrection, in any way? Or our parents for that matter? WTF you talkin bout?

[Wiglaf]

- "Actually, Wiglaf, for most people 'Santa' is analogous to 'God'. Many families (mine included) are religious (Protestant). I was always told that there was a God, we went to church, etc. Then many years ago I just couldn't take it any more. I don't accept things on blind faith, I need proof. There is no proof to be found for a God to exist, so thus I'm agnostic. So these parents tell there kids that there is a God (Santa) when a big number of them soon discover otherwise.

Some people still believe in Santa to this day (eh Wiglaf?)." -

Yes, they do, and they are dumbasses.

To answer your actual valid point, which was rather difficult to dig up, Santa isn't God. Whoever told you that is pretty damn dense. Sorry. There's nothing biblical to back up his existance. Anywhere. That goes for you as well, Victor. Santa is the creation of society; God is the creation of fact.

We know Jesus existed. The only question is whether or not he is and was God. Santa does not exist, we know that. End of story.

[Bosh]

The christian myth is a social construct, just like the santa myth. The only real difference is that fewer of its practitioners are aware that its a myth.

Also do you have anything whatsoever to back up your bald assertions about the inborn nature of christian belief?

[Frodo]

Sometimes I wonder whether or not I would want God to exist. Many people, I've heard, tend to feel more secure in their lives knowing that God exists and is aware of their presence. But I don't know if I like the idea that there is a being up there with all the answers. I like mystery in life; I like trying to find out the truth just as much as I like the truth itself. To accept that there is a God would be kind of dampening for me, as it would remove much of my motivation to learn more about the world. Why bother when the biggest question has been answered? This might by why you see a lot of scientists who reject the notion of God. God implies that there is no new frontier for scientists to explore; at some point discovery just stops.

It's interesting that you ask me to follow my conscience. This suggests that if I do what I feel is right, I will find God inherent in such actions. But by reading the Bible I see how God not only tends to make mistakes and do evil things but also repents for doing them. In fact, God says in Isaiah 45:7 that "I make peace, and I create evil", or something very close to that. Perhaps God has set down what is right, but even he does not follow his own guidelines without fail.

But this is in fact more compelling to me than the notion of a perfect God. I'm much more likely to believe in a God who has character flaws, who exhibits human tendencies (whose image were we created in, anyway?), and the like. If God really is present in everything, then I will find him whether I follow my conscience or commit a crime.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Asher
'Santa' is analogous to 'God'.

You do realize that Santa is another name for a real person, don't you?

[Q Classic]

this infused at birth thing, this natural slant thing...

no.

why ?

because religion is a function of society.

refer to durkheim and mauss, please, more to durkheim. religion is a method of worshipping society through a medium, in which the will of god is analagous to the will of society.

now, while i may not agree totally with this, i don't think there is a natural bent towards one deity, which just so happens to be YOUR God.

there are other cultures, other societies. if their natural bent was towards jesus, wouldn't they, naturally enough, started leaning towards him? maybe even believed in him? but they don't. not out of ignorance. but because there is no natural bent, not to everybody, anyway.

there may indeed be a God, or many gods, or none at all. we are not to know.

we just have faith in what we believe. i believe in a god. he is my God. you believe in your God. if they just so happen to be the same God figure, that's great.

but don't you think that if he were omnipotent, omniscient, he could take any form he wished? could he not conceivably appear as the many hindu deities/avatars? after all, a lot of their moral code is rather similar. could he not have conceivably appeared as buddha? that too is somewhat similar, in morals...

the problem here is that your interpretation of there just being one form of God is too exclusionary. it's too narrow-minded.

God, at least to me, is all-powerful. he could do anything he wanted. he could be sitting right next to me, and i'd never know it. he could be in the totems of the Pacific Northwest. he could be in Krishna and Vishnu.

he could be all of them.

open your mind, try to understand.

seek common ground, before you try to convert.

[Wiglaf]

Frodo, that's bull****. It's church teaching that God doesn't create evil; it is instead the direct result of original sin, which resulted from free will and the intellect given to us by God who would much rather see us try and live our own lives than be his completely controlled slaves. Sin and death resulted from our first parents. Or their sons or their grandsons, I don't know. Somewhere along the line.

Anyway, please quote the full verse. And that had better not be one of those damn literal interps.

[Asher]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You do realize that Santa is another name for a real person, don't you?

Somebody that's long dead?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Yes, they do, and they are dumbasses.

To answer your actual valid point, which was rather difficult to dig up, Santa isn't God. Whoever told you that is pretty damn dense. Sorry. There's nothing biblical to back up his existance. Anywhere. That goes for you as well, Victor. Santa is the creation of society; God is the creation of fact.

We know Jesus existed. The only question is whether or not he is and was God. Santa does not exist, we know that. End of story.

You so missed my point.
Santa is not God. But Santa is analogous to God. Something created to make people feel all warm and fuzzy knowing someone is watching and if you behave well will reward you.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Asher
Somebody that's long dead?

This is where you run into problems if your going to compare Santa to God. If you want the comparison to have any validity, your going to have to admit that the thing you're comparing it to has some validity.