ATHEISTS Are Narrow Minded.

[Faboba]

Nah, Elvis wasn't even a demi-god.

[MORON]

Free will is an illusion.

Greatest proof...Wiglaf cannot not believe in god. Nuff said

Huh? Detrimental meaning the abortion of 3400 babies a day, murder, robbery, and human cloning, by any chance?

Like those so called "christians" don't do this.

Evil need no lack of religion, it only needs existance of man.

If we were all naturally secular, society would really go to hell.

We are naturally stupid, so don't worry about it. (AKA: the crazy and irresponsible 'christians' and the so called amoral atheists outnumber those who you would consider people knowing what the hell is going on)

Simple laws wouldn't be nearly enough to hold the population back from killing itself off.

But Jesus didn't either. (thinks Crusaders, Spain and Anti-Semtism)

[Hobbes]

ah yes, the good ol' religious debate. I haven't actually read this thread, so if what I say makes no sence what so ever, well there you go.

my two and one-sixth cents:

okay, wanna know why religion is so hokey? Because we do a crappy job describing something that is suppose to be indescribable. I'm talking about God (whether it exists or not) here people. Religion is really about us, our views, and defining ourselves as people.

[Hobbes]

We are naturally stupid, so don't worry about it

agreed!

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
If the whole world did not see anything wrong with abortion, murder, rape, etc, we'd be going downhill fast. Simple civil laws wouldn't hold people back forever. Religion is therefore inborn because it is vital to survival, much like reflex and the like.

Wrong. Morality is therefore inborn because it is vital to survival, and morality is not the same thing as religion (particularly your extremist Christian morality, where you can be a good person but are still going to hell if you don't love god or go to the correct church or whatever have you).

The only reason to equate morality and religion is if the only reason that you try to be a good person is to avoid going to hell(in which case we needn't even love god to get into heaven, we only need to fear him; Nietzsche was right, the will to power is all that matters, and god is the one with all of the power). We could just as easily worship Pharoah if we believed that Pharoah held the keys to heaven.

[devilmunchkin]

technophile: well....i've never claimed to have all my rocks together......
i'm prolly a few screws loose somewhere.

[Faboba]

Originally posted by devilmunchkin
technophile: well....i've never claimed to have all my rocks together......
i'm prolly a few screws loose somewhere.

Probably the bit of your brain that you use to control the shift key

[Wiglaf]

- "Wrong. Morality is therefore inborn because it is vital to survival, and morality is not the same thing as religion (particularly your extremist Christian morality, where you can be a good person but are still going to hell if you don't love god or go to the correct church or whatever have you)." -

Well you most certainly acted like a level one jackass there, my friend. I don't hold an extremist view of religion; if you live a good life but don't go to church, the overall effect on your final judgement is actually minimal. That's official dogma anyways, no crap. Totally - completely - rejecting god, though, is another story.

- "The only reason to equate morality and religion is if the only reason that you try to be a good person is to avoid going to hell(in which case we needn't even love god to get into heaven, we only need to fear him; Nietzsche was right, the will to power is all that matters, and god is the one with all of the power). We could just as easily worship Pharoah if we believed that Pharoah held the keys to heaven." -

Religion is a form of morality, morality is a form of religion. If you are moral, you are essentially religious one way or another and probably will be rewarded as such. You can love god in many ways - obviously going to church, etc are good for support - but being an all around good person is your best bet and the primary goal of all believers and nonbelievers alike. Obviously though you shouldn't be so narrow minded about religion and completely shut it out from your life, or you'll make things quite a bit harder on yourself if there is indeed a god.

[devilmunchkin]

faboba: what's a shift key?

[Alexander's Horse]

Re: ATHEISTS Are Narrow Minded.

Originally posted by Wiglaf
I went to church the other day. Boring as hell, almost gothic, the songs were ridiculous, and the priest was a stupid moron.

I've been to that church

[Faboba]

Re: Re: ATHEISTS Are Narrow Minded.

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse




I've been to that church

I think... I AM that church.



But if churches bore you go find a cathedral and play ... that one by Bach I keep on forgetting the name of. I think it's track six on my CD which is no help at all. I'd check by playing but woe alas it's 3 AM and if I woke my parents up they'd likely be pissed.

[Faboba]

Originally posted by devilmunchkin
faboba: what's a shift key?

I shouldn't meddle. God knows what would happen if you hit the caps lock by mistake

[ranskaldan]

Religion is a form of morality, morality is a form of religion. If you are moral, you are essentially religious one way or another and probably will be rewarded as such. You can love god in many ways - obviously going to church, etc are good for support - but being an all around good person is your best bet and the primary goal of all believers and nonbelievers alike.

Wrong.

One of the main arguments i've seen coming from religious people is that 'morality is a form of religion'. Thus they go on to claim that 'if you're moral, you're religious', 'the only reason to be moral is religion' or 'without religion there wouldn't be any morals'.

Nothing is further from the truth.

Religion - a belief in a God, gods, or other supernatural, godly forces/beings. It usually involves faith without proof in the existence of God/gods, who usually, but not always, support morality.

Morality - a code of behavior that is built into human beings through upbringing. this code was slowly and unconsciously developed across the course of history, for the purpose of the survival and enbetterment of human society. (A society where everyone kills, rapes and cheats each other isn't likely to be a happy and productive society.)

The two are totally separate. Arguments such as

"If there's no God, you can just rape the next person down the street'
or
'If you're moral, you have some God in you'

are bogus, because morality is not dependent on the existence of religion.

[Ramo]

Regarding the assertion that that morality is "inborn" into us, that flat out is invalid. What is "inborn" to us, is the drive to preserve our genetic codes. This drive has made rape, murder, etc. taboo within the human societies.

The concepts of "right" and "wrong" are nothing more than social constructs, ingrained into us from our childhoods, hence the disparities between the moral codes of different cultures.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by technophile
particularly your extremist Christian morality

Originally posted by Wiglaf
I don't hold an extremist view of religion

Like I said, you equate morality with religion. Your view of religion may not be extreme (since most religions find some way to punish those who are rational thinkers), but your view of morality certainly is.

If you are moral, you are essentially religious one way or another and probably will be rewarded as such

Ever heard of secular humanism? Secular humanists do not believe in god but nevertheless behave morally because they respect and love their fellow humans.

Obviously though you shouldn't be so narrow minded about religion and completely shut it out from your life, or you'll make things quite a bit harder on yourself if there is indeed a god.

"quite a bit harder"? Because god is going to punish me for doubting that he exists despite the fact that I lived a moral life? What exactly do you mean here? If you mean that I should hedge my bets and apply Pascal's Wager, then you're not talking about being open-minded, you're talking about intentional delusion.