Hitler wanted to kidnap the pope

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Heresson

As I've written before, Uniate church was being systhemathically eradicated by tzarate.

So, there was no big catholic minority in USSR

'The Ukrainian Uniate Church was established in 1596 by the Union of Brest-Litovsk. This permitted Orthodox clergymen to continue observing the eastern rite while transferring their allegiance to the pope. The church suffered serious persecution during the Soviet era. In 1946 at the Synod of Lvov the Uniates were forced to join the Russian Orthodox Church'

So the Tsarist eradication was so 'systematic' that the church managed to survive until 1946?

When the Catholic Ukrainian Uniate Church was forced to join the Russian Orthodox Church by the Soviets?

It can hardly simultaneously not exist in the U.S.S.R. and suffer persecution in and by the U.S.S.R. , can it?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Heresson
Dr Strangelove, this claim of yours I find wrong as well, and explained why twice. The catholic part of Ukraine, as well as catholic parts of Byelorus, Latvia, and catholic Lithuania, they were already under German occupation when the pope spoke about Soviet atrocities. Also, there was no reason to talk gently with Soviets - there were no religious freedom there anyway, and no Jews to hide.

No Jews in the SU? Now I know you're wrong. Don't we have a number of Israeli posters whose families were from the former SU? Maybe you'd like to tell them that they don't exist?

[Heresson]

Originally posted by molly bloom

'The Ukrainian Uniate Church was established in 1596 by the Union of Brest-Litovsk. This permitted Orthodox clergymen to continue observing the eastern rite while transferring their allegiance to the pope. The church suffered serious persecution during the Soviet era. In 1946 at the Synod of Lvov the Uniates were forced to join the Russian Orthodox Church'

So the Tsarist eradication was so 'systematic' that the church managed to survive until 1946?

MOLLY BLOOM. READ MY POSTS WITH SOME ATTENTION. I'VE EXPLAINED THAT SEVERAL TIMES. GREEK-CATHOLIC CHURCH SURVIVED ON THE GROUNDS THAT DID NOT BELONG TO TZARIST RUSSIA, THAT IS IN GALICIA-LODOMERIA.
Petersburg/Moscow got these lands only for 1939-1941 and finally after ww2
after
Check out the map of pre-ww1, middlewar and post-ww2 Europe. You'll find the region around city of Lwow

When the Catholic Ukrainian Uniate Church was forced to join the Russian Orthodox Church by the Soviets?

1946, as You've written yourself

It can hardly simultaneously not exist in the U.S.S.R. and suffer persecution in and by the U.S.S.R. , can it?

I'm not sure what do You mean here. What claim by me was that supposed to be reply to? But anyway, forced lack of official existance = persecution, isn't it?

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
No Jews in the SU? Now I know you're wrong. Don't we have a number of Israeli posters whose families were from the former SU? Maybe you'd like to tell them that they don't exist?

I didn't write "there were no Jews in USSR"
but "there were no Jews in USSR (for pope) TO HIDE",
that's a difference.
Sorry if it's bad English (I think it is correct, though).
It was supposed to mean that there were no Jews in USSR that had to be hidden, that Vatican had no necessity of hiding Jews there.

[Heresson]

Molly, especially for You.
It's a map of Ukraine.
I've made the Greek-catholic part yellow.
Dark part - what I'm not sure of.
Green-western Russian boarder before ww1
Red - boarder of Poland before ww2
Black - eventual German-Soviet demarcation line

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Heresson


MOLLY BLOOM. READ MY POSTS WITH SOME ATTENTION. I'VE EXPLAINED THAT SEVERAL TIMES. GREEK-CATHOLIC CHURCH SURVIVED ON THE GROUNDS THAT DID NOT BELONG TO TZARIST RUSSIA, THAT IS IN GALICIA-LODOMERIA.

No, you haven't 'explained', you've asserted. There is a difference you know.

And printing in block capitals doesn't make your 'explanation' any more cogent or factual (lacking as it does any links, quotes, or attributions). It just looks like a temper tantrum.

I don't need the map, thanks. It doesn't add anything.

[Last Conformist]

Except for the slightly relevant fact that the SU had alot of Uniates in '46 that never lived under the Tsar nor pre-'39 SU.

[Heresson]

Exactly. I guess Molly is too proud to admit He's wrong.

If You don't believe me, please, try to find a denomination map of Ukraine for yourself, and You'll see.
You're being silly.
Your claim was "uh oh, how come You say Greek-catholics were exterminated in Russia, and they were still present in SU in 1946". A change of boarders is the obvious and only explenation for anyone who knows anything on the subject.
How come You can not understand it?

[Ben Kenobi]

My graduate school advisor was a Roman Catholic of western Ukrainian descent. His family left Russia before the revolution. They were Catholics then and they remain Catholics now.

I have a good friend who's family is Russian Catholic, and I know quite a few Russian Evangelicals. There are plenty of stories of the two collaborating inside the Soviet Union, as they would find themselves in the same jail cell.

There's not much love lost between the Catholics and the Russian Orthos though. Same with most folks deemed collaborationists.