Hitler wanted to kidnap the pope

[Dr Strangelove]

Wasn't the vatican accused of helping a number of Nazis escape prosecution for war crimes?

[Ben Kenobi]

a) he wasn't executed, b) no-one else was sent in his place?

a), the fellow would seek sanctuary with the Vatican, in all likelihood.

b) depends on when the plot was done. Other things would have taken priority.

[Ben Kenobi]

which is silly, there were hardly catholics under Soviet rule to be punished for what He said, and no Jews and other to help there (which help would be made impossible if pope officially supported Jews).

Very true.

If your stance could lead to the mass killing of Catholics in Germany, then I think you really have to consider how you are going to make the point.

That's why all these secret documents are interesting, because it gives us a chance to see what things were really like back then, and what this pope did behind the scenes.

[Alexander's Horse]

Wasn't the vatican accused of helping a number of Nazis escape prosecution for war crimes?

Yes, there is a recent book about this.

http://www.mosquitonet.com/~prewett/utbook.html

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by David Floyd
As I recall he never made a public statement denouncing Nazi Germany. That probably has something to do with it.

Not true. Pius XII made a series of statements during the war condemning nazism, fascism and communism but always in coded terms. In 1937 he helped draft a Papal encyclical condemning nazism. The nazis hated him.

Why didn't he speak out more clearly? The fact that the Vatican was in fascist occupied Europe during wartime, secretly sheltering thousands of Jews and working with Jewish groups and the allies, might have had something to do with it

Did all catholics oppose nazism? No, millions fought for Hitler, many national churches enthusiastically supported fascist governments, millions did nothing and a courageous few opposed Hitler.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Very true.

If your stance could lead to the mass killing of Catholics in Germany, then I think you really have to consider how you are going to make the point.

That's why all these secret documents are interesting, because it gives us a chance to see what things were really like back then, and what this pope did behind the scenes.

Actually western Ukraine, about half of which was part of Ukraine S. S. R. prior to WW2 is predominantly Roman Catholic.

[Ben Kenobi]

As is Poland.

I'm not sure what your point was.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Yes, there is a recent book about this.

http://www.mosquitonet.com/~prewett/utbook.html

[Alexander's Horse]

whats so funny Imran?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
If your stance could lead to the mass killing of Catholics in Germany, then I think you really have to consider how you are going to make the point.

Given that most of Germany was Catholic at this point, not very likely. Southern Germany and Austria are Catholic, as would be the Sudetenland.

[David Floyd]

I'd have to say that the Pope had a Biblical mandate to publically oppose Nazism in the strongest terms regardless of the danger to the Vatican and Church. The Bible teaches that Christians will be persecuted because of their faith, but that they should be outspoken anyway.

So in that sense, I feel that the Pope failed to do what he was obligated to do, in terms of his religion.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
whats so funny Imran?

From your link:

In the end, the Catholic Church's intelligence operations not only assisted thousands of Nazis to escape justice, but it also handed Soviet intelligence some of its greatest Cold War triumphs. The authors conclude that the Vatican network was the original model for the Iran-Contra affair and other recent scandals, citing explosive documents which finally implicate George Bush

The books sounds like an idiot conspiracy theorist wrote it.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by David Floyd
I'd have to say that the Pope had a Biblical mandate to publically oppose Nazism in the strongest terms regardless of the danger to the Vatican and Church. The Bible teaches that Christians will be persecuted because of their faith, but that they should be outspoken anyway.

A perfect illustration of why noone should ever going to put you in charge of anything important David.

Grow up son

[chequita guevara]

Floyd's correct this once, though. The Pope should have taken a firm stand against the Nazis. What if Christians behaved that cowardly during the Roman Empire?

[Dis]

then we'd have a better world without christianity?