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Hitler wanted to kidnap the pope

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  • #46
    Wasn't the vatican accused of helping a number of Nazis escape prosecution for war crimes?
    "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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    • #47
      a) he wasn't executed, b) no-one else was sent in his place?
      a), the fellow would seek sanctuary with the Vatican, in all likelihood.

      b) depends on when the plot was done. Other things would have taken priority.
      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
      2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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      • #48
        which is silly, there were hardly catholics under Soviet rule to be punished for what He said, and no Jews and other to help there (which help would be made impossible if pope officially supported Jews).
        Very true.

        If your stance could lead to the mass killing of Catholics in Germany, then I think you really have to consider how you are going to make the point.

        That's why all these secret documents are interesting, because it gives us a chance to see what things were really like back then, and what this pope did behind the scenes.
        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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        • #49

          Wasn't the vatican accused of helping a number of Nazis escape prosecution for war crimes?
          Yes, there is a recent book about this.

          Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

          Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

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          • #50
            Originally posted by David Floyd
            As I recall he never made a public statement denouncing Nazi Germany. That probably has something to do with it.
            Not true. Pius XII made a series of statements during the war condemning nazism, fascism and communism but always in coded terms. In 1937 he helped draft a Papal encyclical condemning nazism. The nazis hated him.

            Why didn't he speak out more clearly? The fact that the Vatican was in fascist occupied Europe during wartime, secretly sheltering thousands of Jews and working with Jewish groups and the allies, might have had something to do with it

            Did all catholics oppose nazism? No, millions fought for Hitler, many national churches enthusiastically supported fascist governments, millions did nothing and a courageous few opposed Hitler.
            Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

            Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


              Very true.

              If your stance could lead to the mass killing of Catholics in Germany, then I think you really have to consider how you are going to make the point.

              That's why all these secret documents are interesting, because it gives us a chance to see what things were really like back then, and what this pope did behind the scenes.
              Actually western Ukraine, about half of which was part of Ukraine S. S. R. prior to WW2 is predominantly Roman Catholic.
              "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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              • #52
                As is Poland.

                I'm not sure what your point was.
                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
                  Yes, there is a recent book about this.

                  http://www.mosquitonet.com/~prewett/utbook.html
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                  • #54
                    whats so funny Imran?
                    Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

                    Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                      If your stance could lead to the mass killing of Catholics in Germany, then I think you really have to consider how you are going to make the point.
                      Given that most of Germany was Catholic at this point, not very likely. Southern Germany and Austria are Catholic, as would be the Sudetenland.
                      Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                      • #56
                        I'd have to say that the Pope had a Biblical mandate to publically oppose Nazism in the strongest terms regardless of the danger to the Vatican and Church. The Bible teaches that Christians will be persecuted because of their faith, but that they should be outspoken anyway.

                        So in that sense, I feel that the Pope failed to do what he was obligated to do, in terms of his religion.
                        Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                        Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
                          whats so funny Imran?
                          From your link:

                          In the end, the Catholic Church's intelligence operations not only assisted thousands of Nazis to escape justice, but it also handed Soviet intelligence some of its greatest Cold War triumphs. The authors conclude that the Vatican network was the original model for the Iran-Contra affair and other recent scandals, citing explosive documents which finally implicate George Bush


                          The books sounds like an idiot conspiracy theorist wrote it.
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by David Floyd
                            I'd have to say that the Pope had a Biblical mandate to publically oppose Nazism in the strongest terms regardless of the danger to the Vatican and Church. The Bible teaches that Christians will be persecuted because of their faith, but that they should be outspoken anyway.
                            A perfect illustration of why noone should ever going to put you in charge of anything important David.

                            Grow up son
                            Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

                            Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

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                            • #59
                              Floyd's correct this once, though. The Pope should have taken a firm stand against the Nazis. What if Christians behaved that cowardly during the Roman Empire?
                              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                              • #60
                                then we'd have a better world without christianity?

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