Hitler wanted to kidnap the pope

[Pyrodrew]

Originally posted by yaroslav
I don't believe the pope was too much an obstacle. It was not that the Pope loved jews, wasn't it?

Avvenire, an Italian Catholic daily, cited a written statement by Gen. Karl Wolff, the head of the SS in German-occupied Rome, saying that Hitler considered Pius a "friend of the Jews."

[Last Conformist]

Well, I suspect that Hitler's definition of a "friend of the Jews" was exceedingly liberal.

[Heresson]

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Too Jewish-friendly for Hitler, not enough Jewish-friendly for Jews.

[Pyrodrew]

Newspaper Publishes Pope Pius XII Account

ROME - The Nazi commander in Rome warned Pope Pius XII in 1944 of a plan by Adolf Hitler to abduct the pontiff, a newspaper reported Saturday.

Avvenire, an Italian Catholic daily, cited a written statement by Gen. Karl Wolff, the head of the SS in German-occupied Rome, saying that Hitler considered Pius a "friend of the Jews."

The comment would seem to refute claims that Pius did little or nothing to protect Jews from slaughter by the Nazis during the Holocaust.

Avvenire, published by the Italian bishops conference, said the new details emerged during research to help the Vatican (news - web sites) determine if Pius XII merits beatification.

Some Jewish groups are opposed the move, the last formal step before possible sainthood. They contend Pius didn't speak out or do enough to save Jews during the Holocaust.

The newspaper says Wolff told Pius about Hitler's plan when the commander was granted an audience at the Vatican in May 1944.

Avvenire said Wolff warned the pope "to be on guard because, even if in no case he would have carried out the order, the situation was in any case confused and bristling with risks." It said Pius asked Wolff, as a sign of his sincerity, to free Italians condemned to be executed by the Nazis, and that was done.

Avvenire's account comes a few weeks after a document found in Roman Catholic archives revived debate about the Vatican's attempt, under Pius' tenure, to keep hold of some Jewish children who were baptized as part of efforts to save them from the Nazis.

That 1946 document apparently instructed French Church authorities that Jewish baptized children should remain in the Church, even at the cost of refusing to return them to relatives.

Pius served as pontiff from 1939 until his death in 1958.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ius_xii_hitler

[yaroslav]

I am afraid that the subject is still pending matter of debate. A good summary of the positions (and the very important Concordate) can be see in the wikipedia, although the wiki puts more enphasis on the "good side":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII#Pope_Pius_XII

another site that plus more enphasis on the "bad side"

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html

[Heresson]

Funny that some things that Vikipedia mentions, and I doubt it'd not speak truth in easily verifiable (if He was a gentile ammongst nations etc), were not mentioned in Jewish virtual library.
Some inaccuracies (Croatians and Slovakians were not quite "occupied") and bias (for example they accuse Pius XII that He spoke against Soviet atricoties openly once, but not against German - which is silly, there were hardly catholics under Soviet rule to be punished for what He said, and no Jews and other to help there (which help would be made impossible if pope officially supported Jews).
Also, claiming that pope only told bishops to help Jews for political advantages after the war is offensive, cynical and disgusting.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
If this officer disobeyed an order from Hitler, how come a) he wasn't executed, b) no-one else was sent in his place?

Because such action would confirm that the intention of kidnapping the pope was true?

[Shi Huangdi]

The kidnapping would not have been effective. Pope Pius XII had left an order that would announce his resignation from the Papacy should be kidnapped. A new Papal Conclave would have been held had this happened.

[Dis]

abolishing christianity

maybe Hitler wasn't so bad after all...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Heresson
I guess it's a matter of perspecitive. Too Jewish-friendly for Hitler, not enough Jewish-friendly for Jews.

Sig material

[Kuciwalker]

Why would Jews care whether or not the RCC beatified someone?

Originally posted by Heresson
Because such action would confirm that the intention of kidnapping the pope was true?

He could just disappear.

[St Leo]

I think Reuters has been hornswoggled by an Italian tabloid.

Hitler did not so much want to exterminate Christiantity but more to co-opt it. Eh. As long as it calls itself Christianity, it's still Christianity.

Pretty Photos

[St Leo]

.

[Dr Strangelove]

The real reason for the plot was that Hitler was a great admirer of Napoleon Bonaparte, who did indeed kidnap a Pope.

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by Dissident

maybe Hitler wasn't so bad after all...

...