The war.. is imminent

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by Pekka
Jaakko, it was only one of the 5 signs, though it turned out to be a mistake.

If you try to claim, that they're not playing the good cop bad cop, then someone is denying facts. Nothing paranoid about it. You have to stick your head in a pretty deep bush to not see it.

It's just normal bickering, not preparing for a war. Putin may be a semi-tyrant, but he isn't a moron.

[Pekka]

Spiffor, What ever. You are a racist anyway.

[Spiffor]

I you too

[Az]

Maybe they preferred a free Finland to a Soviet satellite, and possible deportation to Siberia?

How about a ride on the happy train to go to the sunshine camp, had their de-facto allies succeeded in their attempt? What if the Nazis would have won the war against the Soviets? do you really think that the jews would be left unharmed?

I'll also have you note that Finland refused to take part in the siege of Leningrad for instance. We cynically played along with the Nazis, yes, but that was just about the only way for national survival. We also shafted the Nazis when the chance presented itself, so there was no loyalty.

And that's why I am not blaming the finns, but the finnish jews.

[Pekka]

Azazel, or they could have choose to die if Stalin had had his ways. Or this or that. It can become a super complex situation, like the events on the field suggested. However, amazingly enough, they most simple solution came out against many odds, which is good for us, good for everyone. Well bad for Hitler, but then again that's OK.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Fight! Fight! Fight!

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by Azazel
How about a ride on the happy train to go to the sunshine camp, had their de-facto allies succeeded in their attempt? What if the Nazis would have won the war against the Soviets? do you really think that the jews would be left unharmed?

The Nazis would've needed to invade Finland to get at Finnish Jews, pretty much. Compared to an irate Stalin purging half of Finland's population, that was a distant worry.

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Fight! Fight! Fight!

*sock* *pow*

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Jaakko


The Nazis would've needed to invade Finland to get at Finnish Jews, pretty much. Compared to an irate Stalin purging half of Finland's population, that was a distant worry.

I'm sure if they were able to annex the Soviet Union, Finland would not pose ANY trouble for the Nazis.

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


I'm sure if they were able to annex the Soviet Union, Finland would not pose ANY trouble for the Nazis.

Just like Finland posed no trouble to the Soviet Union who annexed Nazi Germany and Eastern Europe?

Edit: Damn typos.

[Az]

Azazel, or they could have choose to die if Stalin had had his ways.

Stalin had his ways in Russia, and most people have survived his terrible reign. Had Hitler won, The disaster would have been ten-fold, and would spell a catastrophy for the entire world, and of course, them as well.

The Nazis would've needed to invade Finland to get at Finnish Jews, pretty much. Compared to an irate Stalin purging half of Finland's population, that was a distant worry.

Had the Nazis won the war against the SU, Finland wouldn't be much of a problem, cut off completely.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Jaakko


Just like the Finland posed no trouble to the Soviets who annexed Nazi Germany and Eastern Europe?

Remember, despite a severely weakened army the Soviets still managed to defeat Finland (they suffered casualties, yes, but...)
To think that, if Nazi Germany had managed to defeat the Soviet Union, that FInland would have been able to stand up to its military is quite foolish. I would expect nothing less from an Evil Evil Finn

[Elok]

Being a typical American, I know next to nothing about countries that our President is not currently bombing or threatening to bomb. Why exactly would Putin want Finland?

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by Azazel

Stalin had his ways in Russia, and most people have survived his terrible reign. Had Hitler won, The disaster would have been ten-fold, and would spell a catastrophy for the entire world, and of course, them as well.

Had the Nazis won the war against the SU, Finland wouldn't be much of a problem, cut off completely.

Do you have any idea how much death and destruction Stalin's armies wrought in occupied areas?

In any case, demanding such ideological perfection from Finnish Jews is monstrously unfair to them.

[Pekka]

What many people need to learn is how the whole process came up. It was, again complicated, yet it explains a lot.

First of all, Hitler saw the opportunity in us after Winter War. He saw, that since we are likely to battle with the common enemy, he would benefit from our help. That would be, to fight SU.

Let's NOT forget about the past deals, between Hitler and Stalin etc. OK, so it's not like Hitler was really fond of us, he was totally cool that we would belong to SU first. It became a problem later on, as Hitler didn't respect the deal with SU anyway.

So, some help was promised even in Winter War, but since it was going down surprisingly well for us, it played against us since the international help became non-available. Everyone thought we'd be able to handle SU. Which wasn't the case of course. It was all an illusion. Yes, in individual battles we were very succesful, but in the big scheme of things, we'd get it in the butt and hard eventually, but international community saw 'hey they can handle themselves', so the big help never arrived, which we relied on. We relied on fighting until the help comes and then keep on fighting with the help. So it was kind of a ... catch 22.

Now, became peace. Far from peace really, but guns silenced for a while. We both saw, it would be a battle, eventually, and most likely soon. Hitler saw it too. It didn't actually take a rocket scientist to see it coming.

So, he wanted to take advantage and give food and guns, yes, food and guns and also commit troops in here. We did like the food and guns. We were kind of hmmhmm with the troops, as it would make us in different position. However, SU is going to attack any day now, forget about the last battles, this time it's for real, they learned, they won't do it like last time and we don't have anything to left to defend ourselves, what are you going to do? Surrender and die, or die fighting? Last option became more evident.

So, the process of how the help came is also complex. President Risto Ryti knew he had to make a decision. He KNEW, that if he would take this case to the parliament and all the proper instances to vote on it, to negotiate and to weigh Hitler's proposition, what ever came out of that would not be good. Should we accept, we would truly become an ally of Hitler. Should we not accept, we would be yesterdays news in the first weeks, and get it in the butt. Hard.

So he was in a TOUGH spot. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. So he made a plan. He would sign a SECRET pact with Hitler. Now this plan is GENIOUS from our part. You prolly have not read about it. But this is how it went down, the talks about there was no official pact between us, thus we're not allies.. yeah yeah.. true.. but then again not true.. and this is the genious part.

He travelled to Germany to make to deal, however NOT advicing anyone about it. He would make the deal by himself, on his own name as the president. Not informing proper instances about it. However, according to our laws, he could not sign that kind of a pact on his own, not consulting about it first. But this was the only way.. so he hang himself with this. he would take the responsibility. Now the help would come, food, guns and troops, there was a secret pact. Yet if allied forces OR Hitler would rely on this pact, it was an illegal pact you see... so in a way he fooled Hitler. We still wouldn't be allied with Hitler, because he can't make a decision like that and how it went down. But yet he did. On his own accord. And that's why after the war he was sent to jail. He did not love the situation or like the deal, but he saw this the only way to get help, basically for free without signing anything that actually would hold in any courts etc, as .. he couldn't have done it in the first place, so it was like an emtpy cheque. But he had to keep it a secret, because if people would know about it, it would hold weight. So he sacrificed himself in the same stroke of pen at the same time hanging himself with it.

Quite genious strategic move. And at the end.. it worked.