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Whats that to, Dan?
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The Pew Center for the the People and the Press global opinions section. The stats can be found in those reports.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891 -
Which one? I went through a few and couldn't find these stats."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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The only ones that aren't included in the Pew polls are the Iranian poll figures. I don't have the underlying figures for the Iranian (actually Tehranian) poll, but it has been widely reported in places like the following...
As I recall, some people were thrown in jail for conducting this poll.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Which Pew study has the ES/Nicaragua numbers?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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I'd add that I very much doubt that they love us in El Salvador, given that we just held their remittances (far more important than any Salvadorian industry) over their heads to get them to vote for a bunch of fascists."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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I didn't see El Salvador or Nicaragua mentioned at all on the Pew page.
DanS, it might help if you linked to the actual polls you're talking about, rather than to a page that requires people to dig for them. You wouldn't be obfuscating, would you?Tutto nel mondo è burlaComment
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It seems to me that the argument he is making - even if true (I'm dubious) - is ultimately useless if one cares at all for morality/ethics. It's an "ends justify the means" argument, pure and simple: hey, we did this in El Salvador, and they don't hate us (supposedly), so it worked!
Does it matter whether or not what we did was wrong?
To me it does. There are some things, IMO, you just don't do. Organizing "death squads" (or, if you want to soften it - training foreign security forces in the methods of collective punishment) is such a thing.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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When I heard about the Death Squads on NPR this morning I was almost puking, this is disgusting.Comment
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The US is popular in Iran, but of course, as was noted before, wll over half of the population of Iran was born post revolution, and the clerical mismanagement of the economy has created vast resentment amongst the population towards the clerics.
As for Central America- many people want to go to the US for economic reasons, and remitances are a large part of income- but do people remember past US actions "fondly"? Hardly. Heck, in Nicaragua Daniel ortega might become president again.If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
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I thought for sure they had ES/Nicaragua numbers, but they don't. They do have Guatemala and Honduras favorability ratings of 82% and 80%, respectively. Both countries had CIA-trained death squads. Negroponte was ambassador to Honduras 1981 - 1985.
Of course, as Berzerker alluded to, the US had a 71% favorability rating in Vietnam as well. We did a lot of this stuff there very directly.
Edited to change Negroponte's post to Honduras rather than Guatemala.Last edited by DanS; January 11, 2005, 13:15.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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I'm not making any arguments here. Rather, I'm seeking the facts about how things work in this world.It seems to me that the argument he is making - even if true (I'm dubious) - is ultimately useless if one cares at all for morality/ethics. It's an "ends justify the means" argument, pure and simple: hey, we did this in El Salvador, and they don't hate us (supposedly), so it worked!I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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In Guatemala, 51% said somewhat favorable, with 31% Very favorable. Economics is probably the main reason for that- note the poor feelings they have towards the military in Guatemala, the military being the instrument of killing. They have not forgotten the murderousness, they simply blame their own military more than they blame the US.
Of course, there aren't huge numbers fo Iraqis living in the US ans sedning hundreds of millions back to their families, now are there?If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
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There are more than 100,000 Iraqis living in the United States. I don't know how much money they send back.Of course, there aren't huge numbers fo Iraqis living in the US ans sedning hundreds of millions back to their families, now are there?I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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You realize that the ES/Nic numbers were taken less than a year after 9/11, and are thus slightly skewed, don't you?
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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no you are not- there are hudreds of reasons why people make up their opinion of a state- heck, maybe Hondurans remember more know aid pledged after the horrible 1998 Hurricane season than the killing in the 80's- given that you have 0 evidence of what makes up people's minds, these numbers don't really matter at all to the discussion, now do they?Originally posted by DanS
I'm not making any arguments here. Rather, I'm seeking the facts about how things work in this world.
Heck, Argentina had US supported death squads in the 70's, and our favorable rating there is 34% total- can you explain the difference? If not, then what the heck do you think these numbers mean?
Explain why our popularity total in S.Korea is lower than in Vietnam? Can you? Again, if you can;t, these numbers are really meaningless to the discussion.If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
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