Newseek: Pentagon Considers "Salvador Option" in Iraq

[Ramo]

Yes, but you still have to get from here to there, don't you?

At this point Iraq isn't going to be peaceful based on nice words. Allawi is going to have to do something to restore 'peace', and speeches probably aren't it.

Yes, the only options clearly are "speeches with nice words" and death squads. Seriously, I have to wonder what exactly is the problem y'all have with the likes of Saddam.

As I keep saying, why people wonder why we're cynical when the the right says they're waging a war to promote democracy and freedom?

If you want some concrete steps, see my response to Dan.

[DanS]

I'm asking you how you justify the invasion.

Two big reasons for me:

(1) The Gulf War was still going on. Saddam was still in power, which demonstrated that the US was weak and that the we could be trifled with successfully. I didn't support Gulf War I, but I think us not finishing the job of taking down Saddam once we were there and had his armies defeated in hindsight shows lack of moral courage. We didn't wish to occupy Iraq, and we let that wish dictate our actions.

(2) I think a majority-ruled Iraq would be in our interest. It makes the government potentially much more stable over the long run compared to the alternatives. Also, it takes one country from the Arab Sunni column and adds it to the Arab Shiite (infidel) column. It demonstrates that the US can make this happen, and OBL can't do a damn thing about it. NB: Partitioning Iraq would serve this end almost as well, because the oil does not reside on Arab Sunni land.

I had every reason to believe that there was going to be WMD, but in a way, because of my #1 and #2, I still think that this operation is going swimingly from a strategic perspective. We're going to have a successful election, where the Shiite leaders who are going to rule are chosen. The Arab Sunnis are less of a concern to me. They can burn in the stew of their own creation.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by techumseh
Those who idly toy with the idea of invading Canada, may wish to consider the War of 1812 song, available here: http://www.deadtroll.com/1812/index.html

I fear that if Ted listens to that, he may just invade Kingston, posthaste.

[techumseh]

A large portion of the forces defending Canada were in fact Canadian, including loyalists, habitants (Quebecers) and a coalition of native tribes. And British or Canadian, you got your ass kicked.

[Ted Striker]

You do have oil there.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ted Striker


I think the heavy handed torture tactics have worked extremley well so far, in fact, so good, this war is just about won.

We should top it off with the death squads, and it will be game over.

I think it is a bit different if the Iraqis are doing things themselves in Iraq than if the Yanks are doing things in other places.

You may not like it, and I may not like it, but whoever is left in charge of Iraq is not going to be able to be a nice guy if he or she wants to put that country back together again.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by DanS
(2) I think a majority-ruled Iraq would be in our interest. It makes the government potentially much more stable over the long compared to the alternatives. Also, it takes one country from the Arab Sunni column and adds it to the Arab Shiite (infidel) column. It demonstrates that the US can make this happen, and OBL can't do a damn thing about it. NB: Partitioning Iraq would serve this end almost as well, because the oil does not reside on Arab Sunni land.

Out of interest, how exactly do you not see Iran coming out as the big winner in that scenario?

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by techumseh
A large portion of the forces defending Canada were in fact Canadian, including loyalists, habitants (Quebecers) and a coalition of native tribes. And British or Canadian, you got your ass kicked.

You got killed in the process, but in any case, the British did all the real work, they just let you hold the piss bucket.

And besides the only real fighters there were the loyalists that got kicked out of the states anyway.

[Ramo]

Two big reasons for me:

(1) The Gulf War was still going on. Saddam was still in power, which demonstrated that the US was weak and that the we could be trifled with successfully. I didn't support Gulf War I, but I think us not finishing the job of taking down Saddam once we were there and had his armies defeated in hindsight shows lack of moral courage. We didn't wish to occupy Iraq, and we let that wish dictate our actions.

(2) I think a majority-ruled Iraq would be in our interest. It makes the government potentially much more stable over the long compared to the alternatives. Also, it takes one country from the Arab Sunni column and adds it to the Arab Shiite (infidel) column. It demonstrates that the US can make this happen, and OBL can't do a damn thing about it. NB: Partitioning Iraq would serve this end almost as well, because the oil does not reside on Arab Sunni land.

I had every reason to believe that there was going to be WMD, but in a way, because of my #1 and #2, I still think that this operation is going swimingly from a strategic perspective.

Well, as long as you're not feeding me the freedom/democracy tripe...

(1) (minus the moral courage part) incidentally was part what I was talking about, Dino.

As for (2), you do realize that OBL already thought of Ba'athist Iraq as ruled by infidels, don't you? And you do realize that we're taking it from secular to Islamist (if it is majority ruled) don't you? It could've been otherwise if we had a competent government, but at this stage of the game, a popularly elected gov't of Iraq will be Islamist. As for partition, see my earlier post as to why it would be a strategic disaster for the US.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Ted Striker


You got killed in the process, but in any case, the British did all the real work, they just let you hold the piss bucket.

Listen to the song.

[notyoueither]

Ted's only consolation, as one of the defeated, is to fling 'piss bucket' around.

At least we didn't lose, Yank.

[DinoDoc]

We burned your capital.

[notyoueither]

Haa!

Toronto?

We cheered you on!

[Ted Striker]

Was it in royal ounces or was it measured in litres back then?

[notyoueither]

The only things of consequence that you would have burned were a whore house and a powder house, both made of wood.

In your case, we are what makes the White House white.