Exegesis - Cap/Com-ist

[Velociryx]

From the other thread:

Zazel: Well, Vel, the problem with your position, is you think that only capitalists can enable wealth to be created.

Well...yes and no. I mean, when I use the term, I mean to say anyone with capital applying it in the form of wealth creation. Thus, by default, anyone who does so IS a capitalist.

Kid: That's why Che isn't talking to you about it. You're being a real *******, and you aren't making any points, because you are stuck on this crap.

Not making any points?

Let's see...so far, we have the fact that if the revolution happened tomorrow, Che would make off with two of my houses (houses bought with my labor that you people hold so sacred...just not MY labor, apparently) and you would force me to work somewhere of your choosing, without telling me how long I'd be gone.

Yep. I do indeed keep harping on that, cos I'm still waiting for you guys to tell me where the JUSTICE you keep saying your system is so full of is in the scenario above.

I keep waiting, and no answer is forthcoming cos you both know that there IS no justice in it.

And you still wonder why I'm not falling all over myself to sign up?

If holding your feet to the fire about parts of your own ideology that make you squemish makes me an a$$, then I guess I'll just have to be one.

It IS your ideology after all. Your "religion."

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

The difference is that I won't have to rent from you obviously.

Ahhhh, that's right! You'll pay a state usage fee for your People's Housing....which of course, is not rent, and so, perfectly acceptable when the state "exploits you."

Got it!

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
And you still wonder why I'm not falling all over myself to sign up?

Jesus H. Christ, I've told you several times that I don't wonder why you aren't a communist. You just don't give a crap what people say. Why the hell do you talk to them? Do you just like to read what you write?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
The difference is that I won't have to rent from you obviously.

Ahhhh, that's right! You'll pay a state usage fee for your People's Housing....which of course, is not rent, and so, perfectly acceptable when the state "exploits you."

Got it!

-=Vel=-

Everyone pays the fee. So how is that exploitation?

[Velociryx]

Ohhh...I'm an inspiration to you and you know it!

I get to be your personal whipping boy for everything that's bad wrong with the system.

I'm your friggin' poster child.

When the revolution comes, you'll prolly have a BIG life sized poster of me up in all the People's Watcher Offices "have you seen this man?" If so....arrest him on sight!

Anyone who thinks like him....off to be re-educated!

I'm good for you...

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

So? Everyone pays a fee NOW!!! You think that there are builders and contractors out there just GIVING houses to the wealthy?

What kind of strange place IS the Kidaverse, anyways?

-=Vel=-

[Az]

Zazel: Well, Vel, the problem with your position, is you think that only capitalists can enable wealth to be created.

Well...yes and no. I mean, when I use the term, I mean to say anyone with capital applying it in the form of wealth creation. Thus, by default, anyone who does so IS a capitalist.

Well, gee, in that case, anyone starting up any new economic entity is a capitalist.

[Velociryx]

Anyone who applies capital to wealth creation...yes.

Exactly. That's what the word means

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
So? Everyone pays a fee NOW!!! You think that there are builders and contractors out there just GIVING houses to the wealthy?

What kind of strange place IS the Kidaverse, anyways?

-=Vel=-

No. The people who pay rent pay for the houses.

[Velociryx]

Back to Kid:

Let me get this straight.

If you pay me a usage fee, it's exploitation, cos it's coming TO me.

If you pay it to the state (even if the state is charging you more), it's NOT exploitation, cos everybody has to pay.

I'm assuming you've heard of Income Taxes.

Here's a shocker...the rich in this country PAY MORE than the guy working at McDonald's.

They must be getting exploited! Thus, they are not the criminals you make them out to be, but just like the rest of us poor shmucks...just getting exploited by The Man.

Pick a position and stay with it for a bit...it's more fun that way...

-=Vel=-

[Az]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Anyone who applies capital to wealth creation...yes.

Exactly. That's what the word means

-=Vel=-

kinda makes for a boring discussion. There is no way to create wealth on a major scale, be it a command economy or capitalism.

[Velociryx]

:: shakes head::

Ohhhhhh Woe Is Me! The whole world is out to get me! Everyone is all evil and exploitive! Nothing but a bunch of lazy capitalist pig dogs!

Know what?

Me and my fiance own three houses.

Know how we got them?

We WORKED OUR A$$ES OFF!

Our labor went into those homes. Saving for the down payments, doing the fix up work, skimping on fun and entertainment, staying home when our friends were going out.

We made that choice, and we're succeeding.

I know it's shocking, but yes. All by our little old selves, we're succeeding.

Through hard work.

Labor.

Sacred, 'member?

But that doesn't matter to you. You still gonna come confiscate them "for the greater good."

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Back to 'zazel: Sure there is. A capitalist is an individual, not an emmisary of the State. So a state bureaucrat who holds the purse strings and releases funds for the building of a new factory in a command economy is not a capitalist, he's merely carrying out his mandate (tho if the funds were disbursed to an individual then, yes, much like the SBA giving loans to individuals here, that person (the person receiving the funds) would be a capitalist...but that won't happen in a command economy, since the individual can't own anything).

Fundamental difference.

-=Vel=-

EDIT: Clarity

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Back to Kid:

Let me get this straight.

If you pay me a usage fee, it's exploitation, cos it's coming TO me.

If you pay it to the state (even if the state is charging you more), it's NOT exploitation, cos everybody has to pay.

I'm assuming you've heard of Income Taxes.

Here's a shocker...the rich in this country PAY MORE than the guy working at McDonald's.

They must be getting exploited! Thus, they are not the criminals you make them out to be, but just like the rest of us poor shmucks...just getting exploited by The Man.

Pick a position and stay with it for a bit...it's more fun that way...

-=Vel=-

Um, I think I mentioned that I believe people should have similar incomes.

[Velociryx]

So as long as it's state sanctioned exploitation, it's okay, right?

Just no individual exploitation.

Good plan. Institutionalize the exploitation.

Do you not see the fundamental problems here??

-=Vel=-