Exegesis - Cap/Com-ist

[St Leo]

Previous Thread

Originally posted by aneeshm
Which means that successful people are not likely to be communist . Figures . . .

How large a significance does luck play in everyday affairs?

[Agathon]

A lot. There is one's genetic endowment and class endowment, which are completely matters of luck, and which for the vast majority of people will determine their station in life.

That is, unless some form of socialist reforms are instituted in which case the sons and daughters of handymen and labourers can go to college at a high rate (as those from my primary school did).

[Kidlicious]

I know a guy who ended up with lots of houses before he died. He started off as a siding salesman. He was pretty damn successfull at selling siding so he started subcontracting jobs out. That's when he started taking second mortgages out on houses for jobs. He became a millionaire, not by selling siding, but by taking houses from people who couldn't pay their bills.

He wasn't lucky and his selling ability didn't get him those houses. The system got him those houses.

[el freako]

Are you sure his 'selling ability' didn't have something to do with pursuading people to buy siding by mortgaging their homes when they couldn't afford it?

[Az]

Actually, how is "selling ability" a real value producer? Unless it's just a real ability to describe the pro and cons of the sale, it's just like advertising. The "manufacturing" of demand.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Azazel
Actually, how is "selling ability" a real value producer?

It helps a product get from the producer to a consumer. It adds value to the product, since a product you can buy is more valuable then one you cannot.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by el freako
Are you sure his 'selling ability' didn't have something to do with pursuading people to buy siding by mortgaging their homes when they couldn't afford it?

Yes it did, but my point is that he didn't become wealthy by making commision. He became wealthy by taking peoples houses who couldn't pay their bills. And you are right he concentrated on selling siding to people who he knew couldn't pay their bills so that he could take their houses.

Now some of you may call this guy successfull, but he's only successfull at working the system. That's saying that people who are successfull should be successfull. Being successfull says nothing about how beneficial you have been to society. And sometimes it's the opposite.

[chequita guevara]

Why did this thread start before the other hit 500?

[Az]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


It helps a product get from the producer to a consumer. It adds value to the product, since a product you can buy is more valuable then one you cannot.

I was referring to that in my post. Once the buyer-to-be is made aware of the product, and knows all of it's aspects, any other "persuasion to aquire" doesn't add value.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Agathon
A lot. There is one's genetic endowment and class endowment, which are completely matters of luck, and which for the vast majority of people will determine their station in life.

People are talking about luck as opposed to ability.

By your reasoning, in a meritocracy your status would be dependent completely on luck.

[Kidlicious]

I agree with Az. If a person needs siding there's no reason why they can't just pick up the phone and make a call. In my experience sales is mostly trying to convince people that your product or service is more valuable than it really is. That's where your pay comes from, not from informing the consumer.

[Agathon]

By your reasoning, in a meritocracy your status would be dependent completely on luck.

It is, the abilities you have are largely determined by forces outside your control. Hence it's a matter of luck.

[Kuciwalker]

Then it's stupid to condemn something because it's based on luck.

[Velociryx]

Some, to be sure.

As with everything, life is unpredictable.

That's not a function of systemic factors, that's simply the way the world works.

Luck plays a role no matter what the econmic system. If we lived in commie paradise, your house might burn down and mine doesn't. Even in Red-Land, that sets you back. Luck of the draw.

I agree, condemnation of ANY system on the basis that not all factors can be controlled is rediculous. Since no system can control all the variables, all systems can be likewise condemned. It becomes an exercise in futility.

Each system has a means of dealing WITH bad luck and bad spots in the road. Commie mavens will be quick to clamor on about how if something bad happens to you, the benevolent state will leap to your rescue.

Capitalists have a social safety net, personal networking, and insurance.

Same goal gets accomplished. One requires you to work at it, the other is automatic.

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Luck plays a role no matter what the econmic system. If we lived in commie paradise, your house might burn down and mine doesn't. Even in Red-Land, that sets you back. Luck of the draw.

The difference is that I won't have to rent from you obviously.