Ukraine

[Serb]

Originally posted by Gangerolf
Journalists on Ukraine's state-owned channel - which had previously given unswerving support to Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych - have joined the opposition, saying they have had enough of "telling the government's lies".

Journalists on another strongly pro-government TV station have also promised an end to the bias in their reporting. The turnaround in news coverage, after years of toeing the government line, is a big setback for Mr Yanukovych.

Journalists in Ukraine seem to have responded to the call by opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko for them to reject government censorship.

A correspondent on the state channel, UT1, announced live on the evening bulletin that the entire news team was going to join the protests in Independence Square. She said their message to the protesters was: "We are not lying anymore".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4044791.stm

fantastic

Yeah, it's fantastic what American money can make.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Tripledoc
Kind of funny of people can make jokes about a possible civil war.

People will not be better off if the opposition wins the war. They are totally being brainwashed by Western ideas.

When Liberalism hits the Ukraine maybe hundreds of thousands will loose their lives becauses they will not recieve state benefits. The unemployed, the elderly will be thrown into the streets.

What is even more disgisting is that all the news reporting made form ukraine is being made by people who of course belongs to the top one percent who is westernized - and benefits.

I don't know how to say this, but just take a look at them and look through their bull.

Not one, not a single one, government in which this OTPOR campaign has been succesful in has experienced a rise in living standards. In fact it is the reverse.

The B 52 channel in Serbia is now overtaken by a German pop/commercial channel.

I just like to add one thing. Modern Ukraine it's not some kind of remnant of the USSR as some guys here might think. The country is f*cked because of liberalization, free market and the same crap. And it's doing way worse than Russia. Russians who travel to Ukraine considered by locals as very rich folks. Even by Russian standards, Ukranians live in absolute poverty.
And Ukraine was f*cked by people that were prime ministers and other high ranked officials and who now want to take the power again- by Yushenko and his gang of mofos.
No way in hell that majority of Ukraninans who voted for Yanukovich will allow this without a fight.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


As I see, not much has changed in Russia in the past 25 years. I remember such dialogs, oh the horror!

25 years?
In that regard nothing has changed in the past thousand years.

[Serb]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Actually, it's both together.

Unfortunately in some cases people think that it is only the first.

[Serb]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
So my initial statement should have read "the glorious 3 day contribution to the Pacific war"

Ha-ha.
To your knowledge:
1) US and GB were begging Stalin to send his army to beat the Japan. They asked for that.
2) Japanese said it was a Soviet attack which forced them to accept their defeat, because it was obvious they couldn't win war vs. such three great powers.
3) Japan didn't surrender to USSR at Aug 12. Technically we are STILL in war vs. Imperial Japan, since no peace treaty was signed.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Combat Ingrid
Regarding the poisoning issue, it should be fairly easy to determine whether he has been poisoned by dioxin or not. It accumulates in fatty tissues, so a small fat tissue sample should be enough. (of course, he may have been poisoned by a related compound that escapes detection by standard methods)
One of the effects of dioxin is to inhibit the immune system, which could, as Serb pointed out, lead to secondary infections.
I guess we will have to wait for conclusive data.

I'm not an expert in toxicology, so correct me if I'm wrong.
But I always thought that if person was poisoned, medics can determinate it without any knowlege about origins of the poison which was used. In case of any poisoning there should be intoxication of organism which could be detected through tests, some kind of blood anomaly or something of that kind. So to determinate whether a patient was poisoned or not, they don't have to know which exactly poison was used. If there is an intoxication they should indeed know what kind of poison was used to find a cure, but if there is no signs of intoxication they do not really need to search for any specific poison, because any poison intoxicate an organism somehow, and if there is no intoxication determinated throught tests, then there was no poisoning.
Yushenko was examinated several times by Ukranian and foreign experts and they didn't find any intoxication of his organism.

I don't mind a short lecture, because I'm really not an expert.
My opinion is based on my own experience with my dog. When he was sick I asked doctor what's wrong with him and after simple tests, he said that my dog certanly was poisoned, but he doesn't know what kind of poison was used and my dog requires further examination. Thanks God my dog is Ok now.

Btw, thanks for the wonderful gift, Serb

You are welcome.

[Boris Godunov]

To be fair, the use of a biological agent could produce the effects we see and yet be very difficult to detect. There is certainly a great deal of circumstantial evidence that points to U.S. soldiers being victims of bio weapons in Gulf War I, despite medical examinations not being able to determine the cause of their illnesses.

[Serb]

Whatever, in case if KGB really wanted him dead, he would died already. They are expert assasins and know what kind of poison should be used to kill their victim with 100% guaranty.

[Combat Ingrid]

Serb, I'm no toxicology expert either, but I took a toxicology course several years ago so I have a little basic knowledge.

What doctors can do when you get ill/poisoned is to measure lots of stuff in your body, like counting blood cells, measuring protein and stuff in the urine and so on.
If they find anything abnormal, it will only give a hint to what organ has been affected and what may have caused it, but it's usually not enough to state clearly what has happened to the patient. Nevertheless, the results of such tests will give the forensic guys an idea of what to look for, just like the picture of Yushchenko's face gives a hint that he may have been poisoned by dioxin.

In any case, to prove what caused the illness, a specific substance/virus/toxin etc that could cause this must be identified, otherwise the diagnosis remains a more or less educated guess.
Also, like I stated before, the fact that the doctors have not found anything could mean that they simply didn't look for the substance that caused all this. That's why I'm curious to know what they have been looking for.

Regarding KGB wanting him dead: yeah if they wanted him dead he would probably be dead now. If KGB really did poison him I guess they didn't want to kill him but rather encourage him to have a vacation during the election period

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Serb

1) US and GB were begging Stalin to send his army to beat the Japan. They asked for that.

Duh. Just means that the West gave away the farm in Asia for nothing. This is pretty standard interpretation...

2) Japanese said it was a Soviet attack which forced them to accept their defeat, because it was obvious they couldn't win war vs. such three great powers.

The Japanes gave up because the Americans had just nuked two cities and were threatening to do one every 3 days (they couldn't have kept it up for much longer, but the Japanese couldn't know that). The Russians couldn't do anything to hasten the end of the war in Japan by attacking armies in Manchuria since the Japanese had no way of getting their armies in Manchuria anywhere useful by 1945, given that their fleet consisted of two rowboats by this point.

3) Japan didn't surrender to USSR at Aug 12. Technically we are STILL in war vs. Imperial Japan, since no peace treaty was signed.

Technically shmecnically. The Japanese's balls shrivelled up once their cities started turning into craters. Once the US had shown it could do it a second time the fight went right out of them. The USSR could keep playing in Manchuria all it wanted to. Didn't make a lick of difference to the outcome of the war.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Combat Ingrid
Serb, I'm no toxicology expert either, but I took a toxicology course several years ago so I have a little basic knowledge.

What doctors can do when you get ill/poisoned is to measure lots of stuff in your body, like counting blood cells, measuring protein and stuff in the urine and so on.
If they find anything abnormal, it will only give a hint to what organ has been affected and what may have caused it, but it's usually not enough to state clearly what has happened to the patient. Nevertheless, the results of such tests will give the forensic guys an idea of what to look for, just like the picture of Yushchenko's face gives a hint that he may have been poisoned by dioxin.

In any case, to prove what caused the illness, a specific substance/virus/toxin etc that could cause this must be identified, otherwise the diagnosis remains a more or less educated guess.
Also, like I stated before, the fact that the doctors have not found anything could mean that they simply didn't look for the substance that caused all this. That's why I'm curious to know what they have been looking for.

Thanks for the short lecture.

But, they said his sickness was caused by virus, a combination of two diseases actually, not by poison. As for me, it means they have found enough to make such diagnosis, and at the same time, did find nothing to support the version of poisoning.

Regarding KGB wanting him dead: yeah if they wanted him dead he would probably be dead now. If KGB really did poison him I guess they didn't want to kill him but rather encourage him to have a vacation during the election period

Nah, the KGB acts in accordance with old, good doctrine- human- problem, no human- no problem. Any violation of this doctrine doesn't not allowed.


p.s. All world's famous secret cervises stolen this Russian doctrine years ago.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Serb
WOW!!! You seem to believe that Canada is the independent country now.

Hmmm...let's see: hegemonist regional power which barely qualifies as democratic or nonmilitaristic democracy halfway around the world. I wonder which one is more trustworthy...

[Odin]

Serb, your state media is so full of idiotic propaganda it makes FOX news look unbiased.

[KrazyHorse]

By the way, the Ukraine parliament has dismissed the electoral results as invalid.

So the only people who believe in the poll are the guy who "won" it and Russia

Versus the parliament of the Ukraine, international election observers and most of the world's countries.

[Combat Ingrid]

Originally posted by Serb
But, they said his sickness was caused by virus, a combination of two diseases actually, not by poison. As for me, it means they have found enough to make such diagnosis, and at the same time, did find nothing to support the version of poisoning.

Well, after reading the links on this, I would say the information is rather vague. They were talking about "treated for a viral skin infection" without giving more details. Also, chemicals "not of a food origin" was mentioned. link
I want to know exactly what they referred to

Nah, the KGB acts in accordance with old, good doctrine- human- problem, no human- no problem.