The OFFICIAL United States Presidential Election Thread! III

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin


The problem is the national guard is really not reliable and they get paid so little that they are filled with corrupt individuals who often rob citizens at check points. The ING also frequently sell information about upcoming missions to the rebels. I can't say I blame them as they're paid nothing, poorly trained, and doing a dangerous job.

The Iraqi Army is supposed to do the dangerous jobs and they are more reliable then the ING plus they are better trained and better paid. The problem is at 25k they aren't big enough to seriously releave any US or UK forces and the ING can't be counted on to even do peace keeping in safe areas. If we want to get serious about Iraqis taking charge of their own security then they're going to need a much, much larger professional standing Army and they're going to need tanks, APCs, and the works. You can't expect them to go into Fallujah or Ramadi with anything less.

ive read that certain ING units were much better than others, in fact that the move into Samarra was with an ING unit along, not an Iraqi army unit. I could be wrong.

[Traianvs]

Today is a very sad day in history. I can't grasp how gullible and naive many people are. It's time to take out the sniper and get the job done

[alva]

Oi!!! Echelon is listening!!

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Odin
This country is tearing itself apart because people in the bible belt think God, Gays, and Guns(tm) are more important than putting food on the table.

Well, many people think that GGG sure beats food

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Trajanus
Today is a very sad day in history. I can't grasp how gullible and naive many people are. It's time to take out the sniper and get the job done

I am actually in the belief that anybody who feels strongly enough about Bush that he wants to kill him, should also see the murder of the majority of Americans as justified.

[Kaak]

One thing to learn from this is one thing thing exit poles showed us accurately: Values matter as much as issues. Over 20% of people made there decision based on moral values, and more than 95% of those votes were for bush.

Also, I think the florida issue is simply that last time, a lot of people didn't vote because they thought bush had it in the bag actually got out to the poles this time.

I'm also glad to note that apolyton isn't an accurate sample population

[Harry Tuttle]

Hey, we're over 500...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124786

[Theben]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I am actually in the belief that anybody who feels strongly enough about Bush that he wants to kill him, should also see the murder of the majority of Americans as justified.

Nah, I went to work and feel a lot better. Still think the american people are officially Dumb as Rocks(tm) though.

As an aside, there was a local story about a Burger King where the receipt paper had printed on it, "Go Bush! Kill Kerry the fairy!" in case the right-wingers feel their side is all moral and stuff.



No, it wasn't my store, dumbass.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Seeings how Bush and Kerry agreed on everything concerning Israel I don't see a major difference between the two. The only difference was on Iraq and even there Kerry simply talked about more UN involvement which really wouldn't change to many facts on the ground. It would just be symbolic. I do think Bush will try harder then Kerry to put done the rebellion in Iraq but I honestly don't see a clear cut victory based upon a military solution in Iraq. Our best bet is to pore truck loads of money into the Iraqi Army and expand that to 500k so they can do the fighting for us, but I don't see that happening. A year and a half after the invasion and so far we have about 25k in the new Iraqi Army.


That's just my observations based upon eight months in Iraq.

The truth is that Kerry aligned himself with the European view that the solution to the ME situation lies in pressuring Israel. Bush said that the solution to all the ME issues was to bring Democracy to the region, including Palestine. Kerry never supported Bush's view on this. Never.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oerdin


As I recall it was the Democrats who came out against Jim Crow in the 1960's and the south went Republican because the Republicans promised to keep segregation.

Leaving it up to locals means he wouldn't force it on anyone and each state gets to make up their own mind. In a divided country like ours if you try to impose such values then you're going to piss off half of the country so it's better to stay away from that issue.

BTW the 70% figure counts only those states which bothered to vote on the gay unions issue. I believe it doesn't count the other 40. In any event this issue is toxic so wise politicians will leave it alone and harp on other issues like rap music or something.

Yeah, sure. Eisenhower sent in the troops to enforce Brown v. Board of Education. Your history is pure propaganda.

[alva]

Same solution, different means.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by SpencerH

No. What the dems, and too many poly posters, need to recognize is that these are not inconsequential issues to the people who believe in them (which includes many if not most moderates).

No, most moderates don't care to much about gay unions it's the far right and the far left who get worked up by that issue. The polls back me up that the majority of Americans are for civil unions as long as we don't call it marriage. Still at heart we are agreeing; we both think this isn't a winning issue. So now my question is what is the modern welfare reform equivalant Democratic centrists can use to win a few hearts and minds?

I think you also misunderstand my position. I'm not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination and pretty much down the center. I'm against gun control, for the death penalty, against higher taxes, pro-abortion, and believe we don't spend nearly enough on education. I'd like to see soldiers get paid more and I'd like to see more soldiers on active duty so the op tempo can be lowered but I'm against more redundent junk weapon systems like the Striker and/or having three new fighter planes on order when one or two would suffice. I'd rather spend the money on people in uniform.