The OFFICIAL United States Presidential Election Thread! III

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ned
I also think the Jewish vote is woefully misguided by voting 3-1 in favor of Kerry. Jewish interests lie solidly with the Republican Party.

It seems Jews don't agree with you. In fact I'd guess that your average Jew is slightly frightened by the idea of the Christian right wing and their constant attempts to force religion onto people.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin


I disagree. These issues most certainly are decided by the poor white trash & Joe 6-pack section of our population. The best thing the dems can do is avoid those issues and instead concentrate on issues which Joe 6-pack won't be frightened by when he hears the sound bite.

Or they can do what Clinton did, and AGGRESIVELY pursue the "conservative" side of some cultural issues. See "sista souljah moment" See "kerry, lack of sista souljah moment" See "Kerry, support from Michael Moore, DU, moveon, et al, Gracious acceptance of "

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DanS

This is out of touch and condescending. The Joe 6-packs of the world have no soundbite-induced illusions of the Democratic Party values agenda.

I'll admit it's condescending but it is also very true. Let's face it, our average voter doesn't know very much about the candidates and will probably not be able to tell you where he stands on most issues of importance. They’re just to busy or to lazy to find out so instead they make their decisions based upon sound bites.

Sound bites about gays scare most of the Joe 6 packs of the world and so they bolt to the other guy. Yes, the Dems need to stay away from the hot button issues which scare Joe 6-pack.

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Oerdin


I'll admite it's condescending but it is also very true. Let's face it our average voter doesn't know very much about the candidates and will probably not be able to tell you where he stands on most issues of importance. Their just to busy or to lazy to find out so instead they make their decisions based upon sound bites.

So what, Kerry doesn't know where he stands on his issues.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin


It seems Jews don't agree with you. In fact I'd guess that your average Jew is slightly frightened by the idea of the Christian right wing and their constant attempts to force religion onto people.

just your average jew, your average jew, with 1.3 kids, a hamster, and a wife whose 60% jewish, 20% episcopalian, and 20% atheist. With a long white beard, deep talmudic knowledge, a PhD in sociology from an ivy league university, a department store in a small midwestern town, and expertise with an Uzi. Uh huh.

we jews are almost as diverse as the joe six packs. Maybe more so.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

LP got 400,000 votes, only nader topped that with 1/2 million.

[DanS]

I'll admite it's condescending but it is also very true.

I hope all democrats feel this way. It will help build a permanent Republican majority.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
we jews are almost as diverse as the joe six packs. Maybe more so.

By average I'm talking about the 3 out 4 who voted for Kerry.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by dejon


That's the recipe in Canada.

its harder here

1. We dont have a Quebec to make the centrist party seem the necessary party of national survival.
2. We are genuinely more conservative. A lot more Alberta, a lot less Ontario. Oh, and our answer to New Foundland etc has moved on economically, and is no longer aligned with the left-centrists.
3. Superpower responsibilities. If Canada had these, the Liberals would be as much torn to shreds on foreign policy as the Dems are.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oerdin


It seems Jews don't agree with you. In fact I'd guess that your average Jew is slightly frightened by the idea of the Christian right wing and their constant attempts to force religion onto people.

Oerdin, the Kerry Democrat party is aligning with Europe on the Middle East. That is what I am talking about.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin


By average I'm talking about the 3 out 4 who voted for Kerry.

they themselves are divided - from residual genooine lefties, to soccer moms scared of the christian right, to folks who think middle east policy is the dominant concern BUT that Bush has screwed it up and Kerry would do better, even in Iraq. Not to mention people in fields tied to the dems, from teachers to tort lawyers.

Just as the bush voters range from Orthodox folks who like Bush on cultural issues, to folks who voted for Bush based on foreign policy, to affluent folks who voted their pocketbooks.


May point is that its just a tad more complex than the christian right.

oh, and i forgot to mention a vague sense that the Neocons "out there" position is in fact a danger to the security of ordinary Jews.

[Ned]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


they themselves are divided - from residual genooine lefties, to soccer moms scared of the christian right, to folks who think middle east policy is the dominant concern BUT that Bush has screwed it up and Kerry would do better, even in Iraq. Not to mention people in fields tied to the dems, from teachers to tort lawyers.

Just as the bush voters range from Orthodox folks who like Bush on cultural issues, to folks who voted for Bush based on foreign policy, to affluent folks who voted their pocketbooks.


May point is that its just a tad more complex than the christian right.

LoTM, you really have to admit that the Jews who actually believe that Kerry would do better for Israel than Bush are living in some form of denial.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Or they can do what Clinton did, and AGGRESIVELY pursue the "conservative" side of some cultural issues. See "sista souljah moment" See "kerry, lack of sista souljah moment" See "Kerry, support from Michael Moore, DU, moveon, et al, Gracious acceptance of "

Yes, this most certainly needs to be done as well but they need to stay in the center like Clinton did and not become an Oral Roberts on social issues. On topics like gay unions I would recommend passing the buck with states like "I think each state should decide upon their own laws" and what not. Then you go find a rap CD that talks about killing cops and you spend several days bashing that in and complaining about how it is the wrong values for America.

Joe 6 pack won't be offended by that and he just might like it.

[Ned]

Oerdin, on gay marriage, it appears that 80% of Americans are against. What the see from the Democrat leadership is pro despite the deliberate ambiguity of the Kerry position. This "leave it to the states" position is akin to the Democrats "leave it to the states" position on slavery pre-Civil War and to Jim Crow post Civil War. Everyone knows that such a position is actually in favor.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ned


Oerdin, the Kerry Democrat party is aligning with Europe on the Middle East. That is what I am talking about.

Seeings how Bush and Kerry agreed on everything concerning Israel I don't see a major difference between the two. The only difference was on Iraq and even there Kerry simply talked about more UN involvement which really wouldn't change to many facts on the ground. It would just be symbolic. I do think Bush will try harder then Kerry to put done the rebellion in Iraq but I honestly don't see a clear cut victory based upon a military solution in Iraq. Our best bet is to pore truck loads of money into the Iraqi Army and expand that to 500k so they can do the fighting for us, but I don't see that happening. A year and a half after the invasion and so far we have about 25k in the new Iraqi Army.


That's just my observations based upon eight months in Iraq.