The OFFICIAL United States Presidential Election Thread! III

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
I just have enough intelligence to realize that Bush is an incompetent pea brain.

That is why he is the most powerful man in the the world and you are.......almost nothing?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ned
This "leave it to the states" position is akin to the Democrats "leave it to the states" position on slavery pre-Civil War and to Jim Crow post Civil War. Everyone knows that such a position is actually in favor.

As I recall it was the Democrats who came out against Jim Crow in the 1960's and the south went Republican because the Republicans promised to keep segregation.

Leaving it up to locals means he wouldn't force it on anyone and each state gets to make up their own mind. In a divided country like ours if you try to impose such values then you're going to piss off half of the country so it's better to stay away from that issue.

BTW the 70% figure counts only those states which bothered to vote on the gay unions issue. I believe it doesn't count the other 40. In any event this issue is toxic so wise politicians will leave it alone and harp on other issues like rap music or something.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
That is why he is the most powerful man in the the world and you are.......almost nothing?

No, it isn't. The reason he is the most powerful man in the world is because academically challenged, ignoramus xenophobes like you admire his sort of qualities.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Seeings how Bush and Kerry agreed on everything concerning Israel I don't see a major difference between the two. The only difference was on Iraq and even there Kerry simply talked about more UN involvement which really wouldn't change to many facts on the ground. It would just be symbolic. I do think Bush will try harder then Kerry to put done the rebellion in Iraq but I honestly don't see a clear cut victory based upon a military solution in Iraq. Our best bet is to pore truck loads of money into the Iraqi Army and expand that to 500k so they can do the fighting for us, but I don't see that happening. A year and a half after the invasion and so far we have about 25k in the new Iraqi Army.

I thought cause the goal was to have the Iraqi National Guard do much of the security in relatively quiet areas, and keep the army small and elite for higher intensity combat.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

And as the US dollar plumets too, almost instantaenously on the news.... Jesus.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Ned
Oerdin, on gay marriage, it appears that 80% of Americans are against. What the see from the Democrat leadership is pro despite the deliberate ambiguity of the Kerry position. This "leave it to the states" position is akin to the Democrats "leave it to the states" position on slavery pre-Civil War and to Jim Crow post Civil War. Everyone knows that such a position is actually in favor.

But if you have the stance of allowe demestic partnerships, then most Americans are for that.

"Gay Marriage" evokes a viceral dislike in many Americans, but they'd support something that was just like a marriage with a different name.

Of course, that can't happen in Ohio now. Issue 1 was passed which outlaws anything that is similar to a marriage or grants rights that are similar to those a marriage grants, etc. Most of the voters didn't know that, of course.

America depserately needs a multi-party system.

-Drachasor

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Yes, this most certainly needs to be done as well but they need to stay in the center like Clinton did and not become an Oral Roberts on social issues. On topics like gay unions I would recommend passing the buck with states like "I think each state should decide upon their own laws" and what not. Then you go find a rap CD that talks about killing cops and you spend several days bashing that in and complaining about how it is the wrong values for America.

Joe 6 pack won't be offended by that and he just might like it.

If Clinton had ONLY done a symbolic attack on junk culture that wouldnt have done the trick. He went farther and put substance into his insistence on discipline, including most notably welfare reform. Earning him the disdain of the New York Times editorial page, Harpers, etc. Kerry wasnt willing to take the chance of a break with such people, or thought he didnt have to.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Oerdin


I'll admit it's condescending but it is also very true. Let's face it, our average voter doesn't know very much about the candidates and will probably not be able to tell you where he stands on most issues of importance. They’re just to busy or to lazy to find out so instead they make their decisions based upon sound bites.

Sound bites about gays scare most of the Joe 6 packs of the world and so they bolt to the other guy. Yes, the Dems need to stay away from the hot button issues which scare Joe 6-pack.

No. What the dems, and too many poly posters, need to recognize is that these are not inconsequential issues to the people who believe in them (which includes many if not most moderates).

If I was to say that, so long as americans continue to misunderstand and belittle Islamic beliefs in the world we will face the threat of terrorism, you might agree. The mirror to that is that as long as liberals continue to misunderstand and ignore Christian beliefs in America they will loose.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I thought cause the goal was to have the Iraqi National Guard do much of the security in relatively quiet areas, and keep the army small and elite for higher intensity combat.

You are forgetting the "don't talk about how 5% of the ING is probably infiltrated by insurgents" policy.

-Drachasor

[Odin]

This country is tearing itself apart because people in the bible belt think God, Gays, and Guns(tm) are more important than putting food on the table. Us northerners really need to break away from the Neandertals in Dixie.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Haha, they're still going to count all the rest of the votes. Its still possible...slightly.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ned
Oerdin, on gay marriage, it appears that 80% of Americans are against. What the see from the Democrat leadership is pro despite the deliberate ambiguity of the Kerry position. This "leave it to the states" position is akin to the Democrats "leave it to the states" position on slavery pre-Civil War and to Jim Crow post Civil War. Everyone knows that such a position is actually in favor.

oh please... stop pulling number out of your ass. Just because some cracker ass states decided to vote on it, doesn't mean America is against it. I saw CNN's polling last night, over a majority of the people polled either approved of gay marriage or of civil unions. Something like 37% (IIRC) were for no recognition of gay unions period.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I thought cause the goal was to have the Iraqi National Guard do much of the security in relatively quiet areas, and keep the army small and elite for higher intensity combat.

The problem is the national guard is really not reliable and they get paid so little that they are filled with corrupt individuals who often rob citizens at check points. The ING also frequently sell information about upcoming missions to the rebels. I can't say I blame them as they're paid nothing, poorly trained, and doing a dangerous job.

The Iraqi Army is supposed to do the dangerous jobs and they are more reliable then the ING plus they are better trained and better paid. The problem is at 25k they aren't big enough to seriously releave any US or UK forces and the ING can't be counted on to even do peace keeping in safe areas. If we want to get serious about Iraqis taking charge of their own security then they're going to need a much, much larger professional standing Army and they're going to need tanks, APCs, and the works. You can't expect them to go into Fallujah or Ramadi with anything less.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Odin
This country is tearing itself apart because people in the bible belt think God, Gays, and Guns(tm) are more important than putting food on the table. Us northerners really need to break away from the Neandertals in Dixie.

Personally, I think the US needs to become more city-state oriented. I say we abolish states altogether and make the major urban centers capitals of provinces.

We need to stop letting the crackers run this country. I think this goes back to the Civil War. We shouldn't let the South and the rest of the red states dictate American policy. That's why things are so ****ed up.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
And as the US dollar plumets too, almost instantaenously on the news.... Jesus.

That has to do with the budget deficit. With one party in control everyone knows the budget is going to blow up.