Controversial Dutch Filmmaker Theo van Gogh killed

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
bettter to build a big mosque. Easier to watchem than in a lot of little mosques. Thats the French way, no?

That's a possibility. With the recent rise of religious zealotry among our Muslims, there have been many small, unadequate mosques that opened.

It's much better for us to have larger mosques with an imam we know for being kosher. Since the Muslim organizations want to integrate the Republic, they'll happily agree having a moderate imam in a large mosque, whereas small ones may be out of their control.

[germanos]

update

In a pressconference held the last hour, the contents of the letter pinned/stabbed unto van Gogh has been released.

It's a five page letter, basically containing threats towards the co-author of the short-film 'Submission part 1' (a liberal politician of ethnic Somali origin) and lines linking the assasination to islamist terrorism.

A note/letter found on of the perpetrator contained basically a farwell note, as he aparently hoped he would get shot by the police.
For the record, he was shot in the leg, and is currently held in a hospital.
Unfortunately for the guy is that he didn't get his martyrship.

Full contents of the letter is released, and I expect to hear more once the journalists have read it .

[lord of the mark]

" A letter left on the body of a Dutch filmmmaker murdered in Amsterdam contained death threats against a politician and was signed by a suspected terrorist group, the justice minister said Thursday, as police pressed an investigation into radical Islamic groups.



Dutch authorities have arrested nine men — eight of Moroccan — all believed tied to Islamic militant groups, in Tuesday's shooting and stabbing of Theo van Gogh. Authorities have said they are investigating possible links between the suspects and international terrorist groups, including those responsible for the Casablanca bombings in May last year.


Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner said Thursday the note contained a "direct warning" to the film's screenwriter, Ayaan Hirst Ali, a Somali-born lawmaker who has outraged fellow Muslims by criticizing Islamic customs and the failure of Muslim families to adopt Dutch ways. She had been under police protection before the slaying.


Van Gogh received death threats after the film was released in August.


Donner said the way the 5-page letter "was presented indicates that it is not from one person, but a a movement."


The letter, which was addressed to Ali, said "I know definitely that you, Hirsi Ali, will go down."

-snipped-


The letter was typed in Dutch and Arabic, and threatened to bring down "nonbelievers."


"I know definitely that America will crumble," it said. '

[germanos]

Of the nine men now held, indeed 8 are of Morrocan nationality. One also has a Spanish passport. A ninth man has a Algerian passport.
The perpetrator is Dutch born, and carries both Dutch and Morrocan passports.

In the letter found, threats are also made against 'the jewish masters of Hirsi Ali'.

AFAIK, the letters were both written in Dutch.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by germanos
AFAIK, the letters were both written in Dutch.

Apparently there was a small poem in Arab, the rest was indeed in Dutch.

From what I understood, officials have also stated that there is no link between the arrested men and al Quaeda or other international groups, though it seems to me it's a bit early to know that for certain at this time. I presume they meant that there is no evidence of this so far.

[germanos]

His 'farewell'poem is definetly in Dutch:

http://www.nrc.nl/documenten/artikel/1099572679191.html

(I'm not going to bother to translate it: it's crap anyway.)

[Locutus]

Hmm, the same thing was read on TV but they said it was a translation. NOS Teletekst now confirms the entire letter is in 'flawless Dutch' as well. Then I don't know where the 'Arab' rumour came from either...

[Ned]

Holland, European capital of anti-right political terrorism.

[alva]

Originally posted by Ned
Holland, European capital of anti-right political terrorism.

Am I the only one not having the slightest clue on what that means.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Ned
anti-right

A very black & white view, which certainly for Van Gogh doesn't hold true. He was basically a nihilist, anti-establishment and more than anything anti-religious (throughout his life he's been sued repeatedly by christians, jews and muslims alike). He can't really be placed on a left-right scale (which to a lesser extent was true for Fortuyn as well, though he was clearly more sympathetic to the right than to the left).

[Ned]

Locutus, thanks. I thought he was like Fortuyn or that French anti-Muslim rightest LePen.

[Mercator]

I have a burning question...

I was wondering, how different do you think you would have reacted and how different do you think the public reaction would have been if instead a nutcase supporter of Fortuyn/van Gogh, possibly also as part of a small group of radicals, had decided to whack some outspoken extremist Muslim?

I don't know many of those, to be honest. The only name I can think of now is Dyab Abu Jahjah, but he isn't Dutch.

I am quite sure my reaction would have been the same (though I'm sure there would be other people I wouldn't be so clear about too), but I'm not sure if the rest of Holland would have been so outraged. Of course, with fundamentalists it's real easy to just call them terrorists.

To a certain degree it's quite understandable. But how much are we really prepared to stand up for free speech if it concerns people we don't agree with or understand at all?

Well, I don't really know what to think...

[Spiffor]

I'm not sure Mercator. In Europe, the Muslims are still considered as a "victim" group by many (although this changes quickly, thanks to the extremist's efforts at having their religion loathed), and such a crime would prove that our old demons, our old-school racisms are not dead yet.

[germanos]

I think by and large the reactions would be the same they are now.

The muslim wouldn't be praised for being a strong advocate for free speech though .

[Hueij]

Holland, European capital of anti-right political terrorism.

Thank you Ned for this wonderful insight...

I suspected it at first but now I'm totally sure that they mess with your drinking water...