I'll be on Fox News Tomorrow

[Kuciwalker]

Is there anywhere I could get a video, or at least a transcript, of it

[OzzyKP]

We might have something up at YouthRights.org eventually. If/when it happens I'll post a link.

[Wiglaf]

Ozzy I think you make good points, but there are still more concerns - the foremost being that kids just don't deal with the same issues. Most don't pay taxes, hold or want competitive jobs, try to pay off a mortgage, marry members of the same sex, etc. About the only relevant issue among the millions and millions of new eligible voters that you want would be the potential draft in Iraq or elsewhere.

In an election where 500-1000 votes or less could swing the balance, I think a larger number of immature voters (I doubt all would self-regulate) plus the double vote (remember that women were more independent than kids)...plus the lack of relevant issues would make the younger voting age less appealing.

FYI I did see the interview and I think you did an awesome job Geraldo's legal team might have cut into your time but I think the you had some great responses ("poll the dialy show electorate"?)....the other lawyer was good too, although he seemed a bit less knowledgable.

Fox News

[Pekka]

Wow, those were some good arguments OzzyKP! I was not sure about this issue but now I really don't know.. I mean maybe younger folks should be able to vote..

And people say that well, it's important decision a citizen makes, thus we can't let kids vote because it affects oru future and kids are nto so smart. Well.. then again.. let's take a look at few things.

in the US, I think it's been pretty stated that most people will vote on character, they want a leader, a character basically, that they like. Other issues are secondary, though of course soem issues can make them NOT vote them. But that's the MAIN thing basically.

I claim, that kids are best judges of character. They are not restricted and they see through the BS better. And.. we say they aren't smart enough to vote, but look at many stupid people we have voting already. People who write worse than these kids. Read less than kids. Have done less school than kids. Prolly remember the presidents horrible worse than the kids. Are artiscally worse than kids. Don't read the papers. Can't use the internet. You know, kids can do these things. Adults sometimes read the comics only too.

And hells yeah, you see much pleasing of senior citizens, while I think they're great and society should look after them and make their remaning time as nice and fun as possible.. what about the youth? They always take the crap anyway, so they should have a say in it..

And let's face it.. many of us just when it comes to voting just.. wing it. 'hmm.. I don't know.. well.. ok him'.

But I don't know where the limit should be drawn.. I think 4 year olds shouldn't be qualified to vote. Maybe 16? 15? 14? Something like that.. I mean damn.. 14 year olds do know things. They read they learn, I think they'd be at least interested, 18 year old are more interested about the next party in college. 14 year olds have ntohing better to do.

[Ben Kenobi]

I will have Ben's eternal respect and admiration.

And a place in my sig.

Good luck!

You have an argument, that if they have to pay money to the government, they ought to be represented by that government.

I'd rather let the teens not have to pay for these things, but that's just my opinion, just as I'd rather not have them sent to war, subject to the death penalty, and charged in adult court.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Ozzy I think you make good points, but there are still more concerns - the foremost being that kids just don't deal with the same issues. Most don't pay taxes, hold or want competitive jobs, try to pay off a mortgage, marry members of the same sex, etc. About the only relevant issue among the millions and millions of new eligible voters that you want would be the potential draft in Iraq or elsewhere.

Exactly, kids don't deal with the same issues. They deal with different issues, which is why only they can represent their interests at the ballot box. You can't expect their grandparents or parents to always vote for their best interests.

As for issues that concern them, there is a lot. First and foremost, education. It affects them more than anyone. Also, every policy that gets passed has more effect on youth because they have to put up with it longer. Pass a law now, a senior citizen deals with it for 5-10 years, a teen deals with it for another 60-70 years. That's a huge difference. Because of that, teens see things longer term than their grandparents, and are more likely to support the environment, because they are the ones who are gonna have to be living through it all.

And yes, war is a huge concern. The person who teens couldn't vote for 4 years ago is sending them to war today. These are the people who are dying and bleeding for our nation and our freedom, it is a crime not to give them greater choice. It doesn't do any good to vote after the war starts and after you are already overseas. Voting should begin earlier.

[OzzyKP]

Pekka: Absolutely! Also, at 18 people are leaving home to go to college or off in search of work. Its a time of massive transition, and when you are in a new community you have to register and vote in a new place you don't know anything about, or you have to vote absentee back home. Both factors that turn off new voters. If we started people voting earlier, they'd be more likely to do so, and thus get into the habit earlier and increase voter turnout.

Ben: After 5 years I finally made it into someone's sig! Yay!

[Nubclear]

And yes, war is a huge concern. The person who teens couldn't vote for 4 years ago is sending them to war today. These are the people who are dying and bleeding for our nation and our freedom, it is a crime not to give them greater choice. It doesn't do any good to vote after the war starts and after you are already overseas. Voting should begin earlier.

This is your best argument.

[Ben Kenobi]

And yes, war is a huge concern. The person who teens couldn't vote for 4 years ago is sending them to war today. These are the people who are dying and bleeding for our nation and our freedom, it is a crime not to give them greater choice. It doesn't do any good to vote after the war starts and after you are already overseas. Voting should begin earlier.

This only makes sense if you have a draft.

If you volunteer to go, then you don't have a case.

[Pekka]

Also they could return a greater interest, because they might feel more 'my vote counts' than young adults who might not feel so much it being a duty for them where as older people might take it as that when they vote.

Besides, why shouldn't the candidates and the president try to appel to the youth somehow. It doesn't mean they have to do live freestyling, but bring issues that concerns the youth more than just your basic 'more money to education' and stuff like that? They're citizens, so isn't the country theirs just as much as it is ours? And then the candidates really have to have more solid plans if the turn out in younger generation is to be great, because they have to appeal to them as well, that means things that concerns them, so they can't just mess it all up and do long term solutions on big issues that will later on back fire and cost more. Because the young folks could think 'man, this will affect me when I'm.27! No no no..'. So the future plans better be good, and also they have to make SENSE so they will be understood when they try to appeal to the youth, young folks recognize the spin doctors and call BS very quickly, simply because if the answer should be yes or no, and someone starts going great lenghts about something without yes or no in the answer, they know it was a bad answer. They don't even try to consider what he was spinning to get off the question, because they don't understand it. But BS is useless to understand.

Younger generations are proven to have higher IQs all the time, so also in the name of intelligence and smart, they should be voting already. If this is life experience they want from voters, so they can have a perspective and their vote is thus better.. well we seem to be forgetting every single promise and what ever political **** up after 3 months and keep on believing on a new thing that's exactly the same thing. I expect youngsters to remember these kinds of things better, because they tend to hold adults on promises.

People often say, when you're facing close paradox in politics, that it's realpolitiks for you stupid. Then we go on oversimplyfying things, but call BS on youngsters, because their dreams as to what those politicial issues to be pursued on would be 'that's not how world works'.. well.. why not? That's realpolitiks to you, just in a different package, because you both have good premise, but the outcome is what? realpolitiks . In other words, it wasn't logical and pragmatic. The only thing is, we call our realpolitiks real, while kids don't understand the process of how things can get realistically done, so we blame them on being stupid on the process, but then again.. is one or the other any better?

Besides, we say young people shouldn't be able to vote because they don't have regular jobs, they don't pay so much taxes as adults do. Well, rich people pay even more taxes, should they have 2 votes? Should people who are on welfare have 0 votes? Who is to say..

I always thought that the limit should be 18, because under that you get lot of kids who never really understood the system, or how they work. But now I think, that they sometimes knwo it better than us, because heck, they just read about it in school and forgot about it, but we read about it in school a LONG time ago and forgot about it a LONG time ago. If we base it on being smart enough, then we clearly need to have a test so we can figure out who is smart enough to vote.

[OzzyKP]

You rock Pekka. Go to http://www.youthrights.org and sign yourself up.

Or turn your supercitizen powers toward the good cause of lowering the voting age in Finland.

[Pekka]

No I can't sign myself up there, I'm not American and I can't influence on American politics in any way. It's my duty not to.

I don't think there's any kind of group in here that has the same agenda, and I'm too lazy to start one .

[Tuberski]

I have it on my DVR and just finished watching it, if someone wants to explain how to get it onto my computer, i'd be more than happy to do so.......

That other guy's hair was horrible....



ACK!

[Moral Hazard]

Depends on the type of DVR you have.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
Hopefully Imran will have some way of converting it... I think I remember him saying he'd tape it.

I have it on DVR and I don't know how I can convert it.... IF I can convert it.

Looked good, Alex, but I still don't agree with your position (that's another thread) . It seemed the moderator was pretty fair as well, which is always nice.