Let the games begin

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Well, it would be a shame if the Tories are as dead as you say they are in Quebec.

I think they are. Stockwell day has permanently ruined the reputation of this party. Things might have changed with Harper in the lead (as he did make some efforts to moderate the rightist slant of the party's program), but at its root the party is still the same, with the same idiotic MPs from Alberta getting laughed at from time to time when a declaration about gays or abortion or religion breaks in the media. Anything homophobic, religious or against abortion in Quebec is a ticket to electoral defeat.

Remember, at its core the BQ is still composed of MPs from the Mulroney government. There is no more of their center-leaning balance on the Tory caucus.

It would be the end of the country, most likely. Quebec has to choose a federalist alternative to the Liberals or the nation is toast.

Quebec's general opinion on the matter hasn't changed. Meech was fine. Charlottetown wasn't enough. Unfortunately, a pan-canadian party that endorses anything close to Meech will have his ass raped in the West anyway. I don't see any viable federalist alternative popping up in the next decade or so. Seriously, do you?

My bet would be that federalism should kill separatism at its root, i.e. by destroying the PQ, which requires a strong government by Quebec's liberals and a lot of financial advantages like the ones Martin has just granted us in the latest talks.

We will be stuck between increasing Liberal temptation (corruption) and alienation of a significant part of the nation. My money is on federalists coming to senses sooner rather than later, like after a 60% 'Oui' vote.

The only flaw behind this reasoning is that after a 60% 'Oui', the federalists would likely be wiped out of the electoral map except Montreal.

The NDs could have an outside chance of usurping the Tories' traditional role as alternative to give the Liberals a break from power. Real long shot though.

Loooooong.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
I think they are. Stockwell day has permanently ruined the reputation of this party. Things might have changed with Harper in the lead (as he did make some efforts to moderate the rightist slant of the party's program), but at its root the party is still the same, with the same idiotic MPs from Alberta getting laughed at from time to time when a declaration about gays or abortion or religion breaks in the media. Anything homophobic, religious or against abortion in Quebec is a ticket to electoral defeat.

Uhmm. You are aware that the major gaffs in the last campaign came from candidates from Ontario and BC, aren't you?

The difference between the Tories and the Liberals is that the media aren't on a witch hunt for Liberals during national campaigns. There is plenty of dirt in the Liberal house.

Also, you are aware that Day was a creature of Reform, and not a Tory, aren't you? Admittedly the parties did merge. However, the significant bit is that control of the party is done based on equality by riding. That means that the ridings in NS (or Montreal) with 100 members have as big a voice in the party as the ridings in Calgary with 1000 or 5000 members. In short, the Tories won by holding out til the Western Snit Fit parties said 'give' in the name of ending the rule of Liberals.

Remember, at its core the BQ is still composed of MPs from the Mulroney government. There is no more of their center-leaning balance on the Tory caucus.

I wouldn't call a bunch of closet seperatists middle of the road.

Quebec's general opinion on the matter hasn't changed. Meech was fine. Charlottetown wasn't enough. Unfortunately, a pan-canadian party that endorses anything close to Meech will have his ass raped in the West anyway. I don't see any viable federalist alternative popping up in the next decade or so. Seriously, do you?

My bet would be that federalism should kill separatism at its root, i.e. by destroying the PQ, which requires a strong government by Quebec's liberals and a lot of financial advantages like the ones Martin has just granted us in the latest talks.

The only flaw behind this reasoning is that after a 60% 'Oui', the federalists would likely be wiped out of the electoral map except Montreal.

Loooooong.

Federalism now means staying the course and making it work. Anyone who attempts to mend things should be avoided.

If I had my druthers, I'd have locked Tredeau and Mulroney up in a cage together and shipped them to a zoo in Haiti.

I think seperatism is a dead issue as long as nobody throws a grenade into the chicken coop. Ideas of national pride aside, nobody in Canada has economic reasons to leave at the moment.

Like an old saying, no fuel, no fire.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
American politics is far more interesting

Certainly entertaining... like a circus.

Instead of arguing about 30-year-old war stories, Canadians talk about policies that will affect their lives. You can call it boring if you want, but I'll take it any day over what passes for politics south of the border.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Certainly entertaining... like a circus.

Instead of arguing about 30-year-old war stories, Canadians talk about policies that will affect their lives. You can call it boring if you want, but I'll take it any day over what passes for politics south of the border.

Democracy is entropic. Eventually you'll be talking about what a candidate did when they were 4 years old and you'll call it politics (with a straight face)

[notyoueither]

Your schtick works better in other threads.

[Ben Kenobi]

The next campaign is fought in Quebec by telling people there that the BQ is only a vote for yet more of the Liberals. While in the ROC the Liberals get tarred with sucking up to seperatists to stay in power.

It's a good push against all the Liberal voters in Ontario, and the Maritimes, who want to keep Canada together.

Don't discount the Maritimes, as if the Conservatives pick up seats there, it makes it much easier to win the 155 needed for a majority.

I like the strategy of contesting EVERY confidence motion. Even if the BQ vote with the Conservatives, then you have managed to topple the Liberals, and you have another election right away.

[Ben Kenobi]

If this degenerates into too much Quebec bashing, separatist sentiment will rise again.

At a cost to who? The Liberals.

It's a no-lose strategy.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Certainly entertaining... like a circus.

Instead of arguing about 30-year-old war stories, Canadians talk about policies that will affect their lives. You can call it boring if you want, but I'll take it any day over what passes for politics south of the border.

A circus is having your government potentially grind to a halt because one party refuses to cooperate with another. A circus is having communist style party politics where individual members aren't even given a free vote.

American politics is tame, it only gets slightly crazy at the Executive branch. In fact most of the time its pretty boring. Don't ever kid yourself into believing Canadian politics isn't absolutely insane.

But hey, I'm not complaining. It makes for great TV and great conversation. Its like bloated glorified high school student council politics. Its a shame more Americans don't follow politics here, its very entertaining.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


It's a good push against all the Liberal voters in Ontario, and the Maritimes, who want to keep Canada together.

Don't discount the Maritimes, as if the Conservatives pick up seats there, it makes it much easier to win the 155 needed for a majority.

I like the strategy of contesting EVERY confidence motion. Even if the BQ vote with the Conservatives, then you have managed to topple the Liberals, and you have another election right away.

The maritimes are dumb though, they love holding the hand that smacks them.

But anyways, I think the Conservative strategy is potentially a great one. I may be a democrat in the US, but in Canada I'm true blue all the way baby, yeah! Or I might just be ant-Liberal more than anything though.

Very very interesting time for politics in Canada. These coming months will be something else...

[Ben Kenobi]

Its a shame more Americans don't follow politics here, its very entertaining.

Very much so.

This election year will make up for the last 10 in terms of entertainment.

The maritimes are dumb though, they love holding the hand that smacks them.

The Liberals have been very good to the maritimes, in terms of distributing largesse. The Conservatives will put them in better stead in the long run.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

The Liberals have been very good to the maritimes, in terms of distributing largesse. The Conservatives will put them in better stead in the long run.

I know that and you know that, but maritimers aren't quite so quick. I was talking with someone from Nova Scotia before the election and he said he was afraid of the Conservatives because under them " we wouldn't get anymore handouts".

Handouts good, economic self sufficieny bad.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
The Tory strategy of linking the Bloc with the Liberals is quite astute, but this won't win them any seat in Quebec

Exactly.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither


You mean like when they formed two easy majorities in a row in the 80's?

Too bad nobody in Quebec is falling for the lie that those two parties are the same simply because they both have "conservative" in the name...

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Too bad nobody in Quebec is falling for the lie that those two parties are the same simply because they both have "conservative" in the name...

They're still fundamentally the same, hence the merger.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Well, it would be a shame if the Tories are as dead as you say they are in Quebec. It would be the end of the country, most likely.

Luckily not. There's no way the Conservatives can get a majority government without a significant number of seats in Quebec, and no minority government will last for any amount of time with 3 parties to its left and none to its right.

Right now the Conservatives are rightist, the Liberals centrist and the BQ and NDP leftist. Until the Conservatives do something about their extremist image (e.g. by becoming less extremist) they will never win seats in Quebec (nor, for that matter, in Eastern Ontario), and without these two regions they cannot govern the country. The problem won't arise, in other words.