Religion test

[Al B. Sure!]

i doubt anyone who truly believed in their religion would name it after the being that nearly 3 billion people consider the epitome of evil.

[Heresson]

You mean Jews, right?

[Blake]

Originally posted by St Leo

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Fair enough abotu neopaganism but I don't think Satanism is stupid. It's very similar to buddhism except that it allows for materialism and an understanding of the self as opposed to an elimination of it.

Calling your religion "Satanism" is -1: Flamebait.

I've talked to a satanist or two on forums and quickly concluded that they don't do anything to be a satanist, atleast not anything someone naive about satanism would expect satanists to do (like, I dunno, Worship Satan? Sacrifice small children?). It's really just a religion a bit like Buddhism that for some god-forsaken reason they decided to call Satanism, I figured the name probably has it's basis in rebellion - and that Satanists basically like the stigma attached. Prehaps they get smug satisfaction that most others don't understand their religion *at all*. However I havn't got a satanist to confirm that is the reasoning behind the name.

So really, what St Leo said, it's flamebait, but they like it that way.

[Fake Boris]

Satanism is the only form of consequential relativism.

[Whaleboy]

Calling your religion "Satanism" is -1: Flamebait.

Hardly....

t's really just a religion a bit like Buddhism that for some god-forsaken reason they decided to call Satanism, I figured the name probably has it's basis in rebellion - and that Satanists basically like the stigma attached.

There are probably those that subscribe to that, personally, I do not. LaVeyan had a similar idea... this is my adaptation. The concept of God requires faith, which can be defined as something along the lines of a complete lack of reason. Satan does not exist in the same sense that Christians hold God to exist, rather Satan is symbolic for reason and introspective faith (faith in oneself and love). In that sense, it differs from some Buddhist elements because it accounts for the self.

It's as close as you can come to philosophical evil I suppose, and yes there's a romance to that, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't initially attracted to that, but then I'd be lying if it was solely for that that I took an interest. The philosophy holds and is somewhat similar to mine. I don't go for the whole "subscription to" idea, for me, if elements of a philosophy agree with me, then I'd happily adopt them or use them as an educational thing... it takes my own disposition for me to say "yes I'm close to this particular idea".

I don't use the term religion because look at the word. Re meaning "to" (to the best of my knowledge) and "ligio" meaning "bind" or "tie". Religion = to bind. Regardless of labels and philosophies, I think it's still an individual thing, something to which one cannot be bound in the sense I use the word.

I think those that claim me to be flame-baiting need to understand what I'm actually talking about, instead of resorting to the whole "OMFG satan!!! He's sacrificing children and admiring Roman Polanski"

Satanism is the only form of consequential relativism.

[Ben Kenobi]

BK: You mean the heaven/hell stuff? How do you mean specifically?

They state the protestant, (or at least, evangelical) position well, that you are unconscious after death until the resurrection.

From what I know is that the Catholic position is that the soul does go to purgatory, to await judgement, or immediately enters heaven, as in the case of the saints.

So one of the quotes tries to state the catholic position, but it's not 'immediate' judgement, since most of the people will only be judged later. And they seem to struggle with articulating the doctrine of the communion of saints, which is unsurprising given the lack of understanding most have of the doctrine.

Heck, I'm only starting to prise it out, but only because it's come up several times in my own studies.

[Jon Miller]

I would like to see the Biblical verses which support the idea of saints, purgatory, and the like

while I remember a couple verses which could be interpreted to support a couple of those positions (like the theif on the cross verse), there would be a lot of inconsistancies with other versuses if they were interpreted that way

JM

[Whaleboy]

BK: Yes it does sound rather complicated, though also rather interesting if I may say so? What is the basis for the purgatory idea?

[Kontiki]

1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Secular Humanism (94%)
3. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (87%)
4. Liberal Quakers (84%)
5. Nontheist (79%)
6. Theravada Buddhism (62%)
7. Neo-Pagan (56%)
8. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (55%)
9. Bahá'à Faith (52%)
10. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (49%)
11. Taoism (43%)
12. Reform Judaism (40%)
13. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (39%)
14. New Age (38%)
15. New Thought (33%)
16. Jehovah's Witness (32%)
17. Orthodox Quaker (28%)
18. Sikhism (28%)
19. Mahayana Buddhism (28%)
20. Scientology (25%)
21. Seventh Day Adventist (14%)
22. Eastern Orthodox (12%)
23. Islam (12%)
24. Jainism (12%)
25. Orthodox Judaism (12%)
26. Roman Catholic (12%)
27. Hinduism (8%)

[Ben Kenobi]

I would like to see the Biblical verses which support the idea of saints, purgatory, and the like

I could quote several parts of the Apocrypha, but that would get us into another debate, as to what constitutes the bible.

while I remember a couple verses which could be interpreted to support a couple of those positions (like the theif on the cross verse), there would be a lot of inconsistancies with other versuses if they were interpreted that way

Just to help out everyone else:

Luke 23:39-43

One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!" But the other criminal rebuked him.

"Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

[Ben Kenobi]

For purgatory, then

1 Cor 3:11-15

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light.

It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

Purgatory simply means to cleanse with fire.

[Ben Kenobi]

Another question is the Transfiguration.

Matthew 17:2-4

There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters--one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah."


Moses died. So how can he be transfigured here, if all are to be unconscious until the day of Judgement?

[Al B. Sure!]

i have just lost my respect for you whaleboy because of this satanist nonsense... just be a god damn agnostic, deist, existentialist, or nietzschean... why the hell would you pick satanism?

[Sava]

1. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (100%)
2. Liberal Quakers (93%)
3. Unitarian Universalism (92%)
4. Secular Humanism (88%)
5. Neo-Pagan (75%)
6. New Age (69%)
7. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (67%)
8. Reform Judaism (67%)
9. Bahá'à Faith (62%)
10. New Thought (60%)
11. Taoism (58%)
12. Mahayana Buddhism (56%)
13. Scientology (56%)
14. Nontheist (55%)
15. Theravada Buddhism (54%)
16. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (51%)
17. Orthodox Quaker (50%)
18. Sikhism (45%)
19. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (42%)
20. Jehovah's Witness (35%)
21. Jainism (34%)
22. Islam (23%)
23. Orthodox Judaism (23%)
24. Seventh Day Adventist (18%)
25. Hinduism (16%)
26. Eastern Orthodox (12%) <----- baptised as!
27. Roman Catholic (12%)

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
For purgatory, then

1 Cor 3:11-15

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light.

It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

Purgatory simply means to cleanse with fire.

very easy to interpret that otherwise

and there are so many other versuses which go against the idea of purgatory

Jon Miller