Kerry attacks Allawi, calls him a liar and Bush stooge

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned
"This brave man came to our country to talk about how he's risking his life for a free Iraq, which helps America, and Senator Kerry held a press conference and questioned Prime Minister Allawi's credibility," said Bush.

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/ne...e.php?id=94819

Sure, Allawi is "brave" - if the **** hits the fan, you damn well know he'll be here faster than Nguyen Cao Ky was, he doesn't venture out of the center of the Green Zone without major escort, and only then into relatively secure areas. Despite that, he does get some points for bravery. He's taken some risk to acquire power.

For that matter, so did Saddam, Ida Amin, Pol Pot and just about anyone else who has assumed national power in any unstable third world country.

It has squat to do with his credibility, or his trying to put sunshine up all our asses because that's what he has to do for massah.

I liked Bush's other quote better, the one about how you can't lead this country if you question the leader of Iraq.

Gee, I never knew sucking Iraqi dick was now a requirement for the Presidency of the US. Thanks, Dubya, for that clarification.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned


Gatekeeper, please be honest and fair here. Bush constantly says things are going to be hard and not easy, and he does not say that all problems are solved in Iraq. Democrats are very fond of misquoting him in the form of setting up a straw man, and then knocking that strawman down. If you want examples, I can give you examples.

Yeah - there's just a handful of nasty people who are messing things up. That's why we cede control of four major cities to the enemy, and we got five more KIA today, over a year after "Mission Accomplished."

It all depends on how soon the Iraqi forces can take over. It took Nixon 3 1/2 years to get our troops out of Vietnam after he began the withdrawal in the summer of '69.

And the ARVN folded up and went to **** in two more years after that. Unlike Vietnam, the whole world does have a vital economic interest in what happens in and around Iraq.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Ramo

I was encouraged by Allawi's positive outlook. When he stated that 15 of the 18 provinces in Iraq could hold elections today from a security standpoint, it really brought home how much the media is fo0cusing on the negative.

There isn't any particular reason to believe him.

Or disbelieve him eithier. He certainly should be better informed than eithier of us though.

I never knew sucking Iraqi dick was now a requirement for the Presidency of the US.

That's why you could never be Prez.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Yeah, that job requirement leaves me out.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Yeah - there's just a handful of nasty people who are messing things up. That's why we cede control of four major cities to the enemy, and we got five more KIA today, over a year after "Mission Accomplished."

You read and heard the whole speech...so unlike you to take things that drastically out of context.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Yeah, that job requirement leaves me out.

ME TOO!!

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by PLATO


You read and heard the whole speech...so unlike you to take things that drastically out of context.

I think the "handful" remark speaks volumes. We have had opportunities for over a year to drastically limit the potential for growth of this insurgency, and failed to capitalize on those opportunities.

No matter what else Bush says now, we have a lot of good men in the ground now due to constant underestimation of enemy will and capability and opportunism.

[Ramo]

Or disbelieve him eithier

Seeing as how the insurgency has escalated throughout the Sunni triangle - there's been major fighting this month in the several Sunni provinces including Baghdad, and there was heavy fighting last month in a few of the Shia provinces, particularly Najaf and Kut, I find his claims hard to believe.

In any case, he's a thug, and would do anything to stay in power. Lying isn't that big a deal, comparatively.

He certainly should be better informed than eithier of us though.

He's better informed - surely Saddam was better informed than any of us about Iraq also, but that's not the issue. Which is trust.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


I think the "handful" remark speaks volumes. We have had opportunities for over a year to drastically limit the potential for growth of this insurgency, and failed to capitalize on those opportunities.

No matter what else Bush says now, we have a lot of good men in the ground now due to constant underestimation of enemy will and capability and opportunism.

I agree with the first part...we have squadered opportunities to deal with the insurgency.

WRT, the second part, I am not so sure that we as much underestimated them as we don't have the will to deal with them. The siege of Fallujah keeps coming to mind. We had the power and the plan to take care of business, but ended up walking away...what a stupid mistake! My take on it is that the Bush admin is afraid of alienating what support they do have among the Iraqis and further eroding our international image. My belief is that we would have gained respect from the common man on the street for taking decisive action. Nonetheless...the opportunites missed statement holds.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Ramo

He certainly should be better informed than eithier of us though.

He's better informed - surely Saddam was better informed than any of us about Iraq also, but that's not the issue. Which is trust.

Okay, but who do you trust? The media?

[Ramo]

Yes. Far more than that thug.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Ramo
Yes. Far more than that thug.

I would say that both have an agenda. It is really hard to try and determine the truth about what is happening anywhere these days. Still, given the overall population of Iraq and the limited area of insurgency, it would appear that there is some truth to what Allawi says. Given the amount of video of destruction and the number of body bags, there is probably some truth to the media accounts. My guess is that the real truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[Ramo]

So you gave equal weight to Saddam's claims as to "the media's"? "The media" doesn't have a monolithic set of aims BTW, while Allawi does.

And why do you consider area of insurgency so "limited." Most of the Sunni areas are in rebellion, and large parts of the South were in rebellion just last month.

[chequita guevara]

I don't trust Allawi at all. I trust the media only slightly.

[MichaeltheGreat]

I don't think Allawi or Karzai are particularly bad guys. In fact, given many of the alternatives, they're practically candidates for sainthood compared to some of the thugs available.

They just both have the obligation to sing their master's tune.