The Chechens' American friends

[Serb]

Originally posted by Zevico

Serb: I really don't know enough about the Chechnya conflict to say much about it. Putin &co. are basically remnants of the Communist regime in many respects, and for that reason I don't trust them in the slightest. On the other hand, Chechnya is pretty messed up. However, a good judgement of both of these sides is impossible with the lack of information that I have. Can you recommend any books, web sites, or etc that speak about this conflict, or that can explain its causes?

If you speak Russian, I could find something, western sites are usually just a terrorist's propaganda. I've already posted Russian version of the events, last time there:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121624&perpage=30&pagenumber=3

and there:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3282799#post3282799

[notyoueither]

btw, Serb. I wish your opening rant about Western media were not accurate. However, I went and searched through some cbc pages. Indeed they called the murderers of children 'militants'. The words 'terrorism' and 'terrorist' were not used once.

Perhaps it might hearten you to know that most of us know that our media are full of ****.

[Serb]

Thank you very much, I feel much better now.

And of course our own media are full of ****s as well.

[Ted Striker]

Well, even though Serb listed a horrible source, and his first post was a rant, unfortunatley, the gist of what he is saying is right.

The USA and the UK are both granting asylum to Chechen terrorists.

I think it's time to be more consistent with the war on "terror."

[The Mad Monk]

Agreed.

[Harovan]

Western media is definitely full of ****.

However, in our media coverage I heard both versions. They were called "terrorists", when the big picture was discussed, and "hostage takers" in reports about the particular situation, because that was exactly what they did in the given moment. Nobody called them "freedom fighters" or somesuch.

[Ted Striker]

Deutsch media is definitley full of ScheiBt

[Berzerker]

Originally posted by Serb


Says who?


The American Emperor, aren't you still occupy the Native's lands?

Yes, we are, and? If I lived back then I would have opposed taking their lands. Now, are you going to answer my question about why the Chechnyans are willing to die to kill Russians or should I just assume my suspicion to be true? I'm not one of these goofs who think people just strap on bombs to kill people for no reason...so what is it?

[Geronimo]

Serb I found this site in English about terrorism involving Chechyna ,but I really have had lousy luck finding anything even remotely detailed in english about these terrorists.

Even if the above link gets the facts all correct it would be nice to have a source a bit more detailed. I see pravda has an english language version. Would that be a better option for getting details about the conflict than CNN? I have no idea as to how credible they are these days. What Russian source would be the most credible?

[notyoueither]

Why fly airliners into big buildings, Berz? Why wear a bomb onto a bus with school kids on it, Berz?

Can I guess, hate?

Hate stirred up by religion and by oil money exported in the form of missionaries? That is the image of Wahhabism that is coming through lately.

[Serb]

[Berzerker]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Why fly airliners into big buildings, Berz? Why wear a bomb onto a bus with school kids on it, Berz?

Can I guess, hate?

Hate stirred up by religion and by oil money exported in the form of missionaries? That is the image of Wahhabism that is coming through lately.

Yes yes, so why the hate? Does this have something to do with being under communism for decades? Or under the Czars before them?

Once again this is what created Vietnam. But this time the Chechnyans can hit inside of Russia... The solution is to let Chechnya go. But major powers are not in the habit of leaving people alone when they sit on resources...

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Berzerker


Yes yes, so why the hate? Does this have something to do with being under communism for decades? Or under the Czars before them?

Once again this is what created Vietnam. But this time the Chechnyans can hit inside of Russia... The solution is to let Chechnya go. But major powers are not in the habit of leaving people alone when they sit on resources...

I certainly agree that when this sort of situation arises one of the first things to try is to grant the separatists their independance. The Russians wisely gave this a try for 3 years and the country turned into a taliban clone bent on exporting it's terrorist brand of wahabbism to it's neighbors. It launched an invasion of Russia. Berz, independance won't be possible until the taliban element is ripped out.

In any event, have you asked Chechynans whether they want independance? They had a taste of it and I daresay the overwhelming majority are in no hurry to return to it. Like us, chechnyans care a hell of a lot more about their own individual liberties than about some abstract sovereignty for a local state. I daresay they'd rather live under foreign rule than local rule if the local rulers were tyrants intruding in their personal lives and the outsiders were willing to let them live like free human beings.

[Ted Striker]

What Geronimo said

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Well, even though Serb listed a horrible source, and his first post was a rant, unfortunatley, the gist of what he is saying is right.

The USA and the UK are both granting asylum to Chechen terrorists.

I think it's time to be more consistent with the war on "terror."

If you stopped torturing them we would send them back quite happily.