The Chechens' American friends

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by TheStinger


If you stopped torturing them we would send them back quite happily.

The Russians never said they were torturing them. Shouldn't you just extradite them in exchange for a promise they won't be tortured? Russia is a democracy after all and torture isn't legal there. You're obstructing justice for acts of terrorism over hear say.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by TheStinger


If you stopped torturing them we would send them back quite happily.

Care to elaborate?

[TheStinger]

We have a legal system that system says if your are reasonably likely to be tortured then we cannot send you back. Its as simple as that, there is a wealth of evidence that suggests those who are suspected of being sympathetic to the Chechen terrorists let alone being active in their support are likely to be subjected to treatment that contravenes Article 3 of the European convention on Human rights. Therefore if its the case the Russians activley seek extardition it is very likely it will be refused.

We do send back those who calim to be fearing persecution but are not believed.

[Berzerker]

I daresay they'd rather live under foreign rule than local rule if the local rulers were tyrants intruding in their personal lives and the outsiders were willing to let them live like free human beings.

Ah, I didn't know a Taliban-like group is behind this. So this group wants to invade Russia to forcibly convert people to their religion, not fight for independence?
I have no idea what Chechnyans think, I'm just looking at events and wondering why Chechnyans are willing to die to get Russia out of Chechnya.

I guess it's so they can invade Russia to convert the infidels. Is that Putin's explanation?

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by TheStinger
We have a legal system that system says if your are reasonably likely to be tortured then we cannot send you back. Its as simple as that, there is a wealth of evidence that suggests those who are suspected of being sympathetic to the Chechen terrorists let alone being active in their support are likely to be subjected to treatment that contravenes Article 3 of the European convention on Human rights. Therefore if its the case the Russians activley seek extardition it is very likely it will be refused.

We do send back those who calim to be fearing persecution but are not believed.

Why do they get a blank check?

If they have orchestrated the killing of 50 people in a terrorist attack, shouldn't they be tried in SOME kind of court?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Geronimo
Serb I found this site in English about terrorism involving Chechyna ,but I really have had lousy luck finding anything even remotely detailed in english about these terrorists.

Even if the above link gets the facts all correct it would be nice to have a source a bit more detailed. I see pravda has an english language version. Would that be a better option for getting details about the conflict than CNN? I have no idea as to how credible they are these days. What Russian source would be the most credible?

Well, it took some time to find such site, but I guess I've found one. I've examinated the section of this site dedicated to the history of crisis, and should say it's pretty ok.
Everyone who wish to know the opposite view of the Chechen war (the opposite to most of western sources), should check this Chechen site. It's pretty long read, but I think it worth it:

http://www.chechnyafree.ru/index.php?section=answerseng&lng=eng

just click the "Chechen crisis. Main events"
or skip "to reader" section (which is not recomended) and follow directly to http://www.chechnyafree.ru/index.php...erseng&lng=eng

This site also contains detailed info about Chechen history, traditions, culture and other things about Chechnya, main page:

http://www.chechnyafree.ru/chechenhistory.htm

[Serb]

Berz, you definetly should check the site I've mentioned in my post above. Perhaps it will help you to understand a thing or two about the subject.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Ted Striker



Why do they get a blank check?

If they have orchestrated the killing of 50 people in a terrorist attack, shouldn't they be tried in SOME kind of court?

As for me, to let such people walk the Earth without ANY punishment is a crime.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Ted Striker



Why do they get a blank check?

If they have orchestrated the killing of 50 people in a terrorist attack, shouldn't they be tried in SOME kind of court?

If its the case that we would extradite them but for the fact that they will be tortured we lock em up indefinatley.

There has to be good evidence your a nasty bastard though.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Berzerker


Ah, I didn't know a Taliban-like group is behind this. So this group wants to invade Russia to forcibly convert people to their religion, not fight for independence?
I have no idea what Chechnyans think, I'm just looking at events and wondering why Chechnyans are willing to die to get Russia out of Chechnya.

I guess it's so they can invade Russia to convert the infidels. Is that Putin's explanation?

The invasion was of Dagestan another autonominous republic in Russia neighboring Chechyna. I doubt they had illusions about converting all the infidels in russia Abd-ar-Rahman style. Rather I suspect they felt cocky because Yelstin had caved in so completely a few years earlier and I suppose they hoped to incite the muslim inhabitants of Dagestan to rise up and join their little wahabbist enclave.

In any event they weren't gunning for independance at that point. They already had it.

[Ted Striker]

We should reopen these cases

It's obvious to me that "terrorist" has been a subjective term over the last 25 years

We protect some terrorists that messed with Cuba, they have nice condos in Miami.

I can't remember the name of the main guy. Any one of the Commies would know off the top of their heads.

[Serb]

Originally posted by TheStinger


If its the case that we would extradite them but for the fact that they will be tortured we lock em up indefinatley.

There has to be good evidence your a nasty bastard though.

Well, imagine a Saddam or Osama or some of their high-ranked minions were granted asylum in Russia and Russians refused to extradite them, because of:
1) they might be beaten by their convoy or tortued in US, becuase it is know that Americans hate them.
2) they might be executed (becuse aside Russia, US has death penalty)
3) Russians demand a good evidences that these a nasty bastards (good enough for Russians, in other words no matter what kind of evidences you bring, Russians could always say- "it's not good enough for us").

How would you react?
Is it fair attitude? Is that how allies should act?

[TheStinger]

We wouldn't send Osama bin laden to the US if he were to face the Death penalty.

If you stop torturing people on a large enough scale that it is reported extensivley then we will extradite them.

We do extardite people to many countries however they do tend to have internationaly accepted standards of justice. which lets face it Russia at the present time doesn't

[Az]

@ Thread.

OMG, All of Russia's anti-terror talk evaporates when talking about the issues of Iraq, and Israel! THOSE HYPOCRITES!

[Serb]

Originally posted by TheStinger
We wouldn't send Osama bin laden to the US if he were to face the Death penalty.

If you stop torturing people on a large enough scale that it is reported extensivley then we will extradite them.

We do extardite people to many countries however they do tend to have internationaly accepted standards of justice. which lets face it Russia at the present time doesn't

Blah...blah...blah...a pity excuses to cover terrorists. Someday all those bastards who call London their home seet home now, will pay you for you kindness.

p.s. And to your knowledge, in accordance with Russian constitution tortues are forbiden. And its amusing that you give shelter to f*ckers who murdered, tortured to death, cut throats of innocent people, becuse of your suspicion (based on what?) that those f*ckers could be tortued in Russia.