The Social Contract?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Solomwi
Particular jobs may be impossible to find at times, but there is always a job to be had.

Stop lying to yourself.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Kidicious


You almost got the heart of the matter. It's that yes she respects the right for you to keep what you have earned. Whether you have truly earned it is a question though, especially in a capitalist system where it depends more often to what family you were born. She understands all to well that her children have a right to live, and that absolutely trumps your right to property. That's how everyone understands it. You Libertarians are so full of **** with you right to property can not be violated for any reason. You know damn well that you would all steal if you hade to. You problem is in your damn heads. You can't put yourself in others situations. This ones for the libs.

Wow. The sad thing is that you believe what you just spewed. If I have played by the rules of the system, I have earned what I own. Whether you or some welfare recipient thinks I have is irrelevant. Her child's right to live is her responsibility, not mine, and therefore does not trump my right to my property. As soon as people are fed the notion that their right to life trumps anybody else's right to property, any free system collapses. Why work then, when I can just rob the rich? After all, I don't think they earned it, and I need to live, so I've got as much right to it as they do.

Oh, and I have no problem putting myself in others' situations. It's just that I tend to find solutions that don't involve criminal activity. Those are always out there, so please, spare me the hooker with the heart of gold routine.

[Kidlicious]

The Libertarians want to create a system where people have to steal food, and then they want to punish those people. Why? So they can keep all of their stuff.

See you have to be real ****ing rich to think like that. To justify a system without any justification. You have to be real rich and greedy.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Stop lying to yourself.

LMAO! The built-in assumption is that this destitute mother realizes no job is beneath her. If she does, she'll find a job. If she doesn't, and her baby starves, it's her own fault.

[Drogue]

Oh, I believe no-one has a 'right' to life. If you earn property, no-one can steal it, but no-one should have to steal to feed themselves. That's that I'm not a libertarian, it's the state's job to feed those who cannot afford to feed themselves, so they don't have to steal.

However seeing that I don't believe in natural rights, only rights granted by society, I don't see a right to life as existing without the government saying so. If they want to make murder legal, they can. I have no reason to say that Darwinism shouldn't be allowed to exist, since survival of those that can survive best advances the species fastest. I wouldn't run a country like that, but I can understand reasons for wanting that. I don't believe in some sacred right to live, especially at the expense of others, that trumps all else. What would that woman do if other people weren't here to support her?

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Kidicious
The Libertarians want to create a system where people have to steal food, and then they want to punish those people. Why? So they can keep all of their stuff.

See you have to be real ****ing rich to think like that. To justify a system without any justification. You have to be real rich and greedy.

Nobody's creating a system where people have to steal food.

I wish I were real ****ing rich, but it's not the case. Even not being rich, I don't want anybody thinking they have a right to that for which I worked. One's right to life only entails that I not interfere with it, not that I provide it.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Solomwi


LMAO! The built-in assumption is that this destitute mother realizes no job is beneath her. If she does, she'll find a job. If she doesn't, and her baby starves, it's her own fault.

Errr. You guys don't get it. You're lying to yourself. You know damn well there isn't enough jobs. What? Do you think the job market is a media conspiracy or something? Really do you?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Nobody's creating a system where people have to steal food.

How do the abject poor eat without welfare? You say get a job, but what if there isn't any in their area? Then they'll steal food.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Solomwi
Nobody's creating a system where people have to steal food.

Ok, now your just going pretend like all these people benefiting from govt spending are just going to be just fine. That is just crazy. It has no basis in history.

There are absolutely no other group that believes such ridiculous things as Libertarians. And you will never come to power in a democracy because your whole ideology is just obviously biased to the rich.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Errr. You guys don't get it. You're lying to yourself. You know damn well there isn't enough jobs. What? Do you think the job market is a media conspiracy or something? Really do you?

No, I don't know damn well that there aren't enough jobs. I do know that, when unemployed, I was always able to scrape together odd jobs to pass the time until something in my field came along. I do know that this has applied to everybody I've known that was unemployed for a while, too. I also know there is always somebody needing somebody else to do something.

Imran: They can pull weeds, keep children, sweep floors or whatever else they can find to scrape up enough pennies to go where there are jobs. There's also charity to be had until a job comes around. Has been as long as there have been abject poor. Chairty is a wonderful thing, being voluntary and all.

They can also steal some food, and get free room and board for a while.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Ok, now your just going pretend like all these people benefiting from govt spending are just going to be just fine. That is just crazy. It has no basis in history.

There are absolutely no other group that believes such ridiculous things as Libertarians. And you will never come to power in a democracy because your whole ideology is just obviously biased to the rich.

I pretend nothing. I'm simply pointing out that there are always options that don't require theft. I can see it's pretty pointless, though, as you're inexorably tied to the notion that those currently on welfare will have to steal food to survive. It's simply not true.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Ok, now your just going pretend like all these people benefiting from govt spending are just going to be just fine. That is just crazy. It has no basis in history.

There are absolutely no other group that believes such ridiculous things as Libertarians. And you will never come to power in a democracy because your whole ideology is just obviously biased to the rich.

Anarchists are worse (by a bit).

JM

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Drogue
What would that woman do if other people weren't here to support her?

What does that have any thing to do with? She was born in our society. What gives someone else more rights than her? You have to realize that libertarians don't even really believe this crap. Of course they know that the life is more important than property. They would steal bread too if they have to. Making it illegal to do so is a violation because they don't have to steal bread. The right to property favors the rich, because the poor have no use for it. Of course the right to life, every one benefits from.

[Imran Siddiqui]

They can pull weeds, keep children, sweep floors or whatever else they can find to scrape up enough pennies to go where there are jobs.

What if they can't? What if no one is offering jobs in the 'hood? What if they are disabled? What if they have a mental disabilty that prevents them from getting gainful employment?

There's also charity to be had until a job comes around.

What if there isn't enough?

I'd imagine the reason welfare came about was because charity was inadequate.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Solomwi


I pretend nothing. I'm simply pointing out that there are always options that don't require theft. I can see it's pretty pointless, though, as you're inexorably tied to the notion that those currently on welfare will have to steal food to survive. It's simply not true.

no there isn't it

especially not that can feed you (and your kid)

Jon Miller