Attackers seize Russian school II(continued)

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Heresson


How do You know that the result of granting independance of Chechenia would be an islamic state?

It seems to be fairly well established that members of the group which attacked this school was at least 25% arabic. I can assure you the arabs weren't fighting for a secular independent Chechnya.

Their independance was temporarily limited. Russia's not going to give Chechens independance after any time.

People say that Chechnya was not completely indepenedent, yet they were able to institute Sharia law, including a number of laws that most assuredly were against Russia's constitution, like the death penalty. It sounds to me like they had a lion's share of autonomy. Could you imagine any region of your country getting away with eliminating your nation's constitution?

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


It seems to be fairly well established that members of the group which attacked this school was at least 25% arabic. I can assure you the arabs weren't fighting for a secular independent Chechnya.

It's not about what their motivation.

People say that Chechnya was not completely indepenedent, yet they were able to institute Sharia law, including a number of laws that most assuredly were against Russia's constitution, like the death penalty. It sounds to me like they had a lion's share of autonomy. Could you imagine any region of your country getting away with eliminating your nation's constitution?

I'm talking about a present situation

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
Hey, don't blame us. We've printed and broadcasted this story, but if folks don't want to read about it or listen to it, our hands are tied. We've done our part, now it's up to the public.

No. You have not done your part. The media is crap. If Bush got a sprained ankle it would get more coverage.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Heresson
How do You know that the result of granting independance of Chechenia would be an islamic state?

I no they won't be an islamic state if they don't get their independence. At any rate, I'm not as gung ho about independence movements as some others may be. I know it must be ****ed up to live in Russia, but I doubt the Chechnyans can do any better.

[Kidlicious]

Actually my dad is living in Siberia, but I guess the Siberians don't care too much for the Russians either. That's what I hear anyway.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Kidicious
No. You have not done your part. The media is crap. If Bush got a sprained ankle it would get more coverage.

What world are you living in, boy? Everywhere I turn — from the local and national newspapers to local news and national news broadcasts — I've seen the Russian hostage incident covered to one degree or another. It sure as hell isn't being shoved away into some corner. If that isn't enough for you, I've gone to any simple frickin' search engine, typed in "Russia" and "hostages" and, voila!, a lot of returns pop up ... a *good* number of them from mainstream news sources.

What more do you want? Your own personal news service? Then cough up the money, buddy, and subscribe to such a service.

The media is crap, huh? Tell me, boy, what's the media to you? That ranting and raving on cable television and talk radio? Your typical tabloid rag? Because if it is, that's not the news media. That's called infotainment, and there's a helluva difference between the two.

Gatekeeper

[Serb]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Actually my dad is living in Siberia, but I guess the Siberians don't care too much for the Russians either. That's what I hear anyway.

I am SIBERIAN and I am RUSSIAN. Siberian=Russian who lives in Siberia.

[Serb]

I see Heresson, emperor of whatever, some chemical brothers and other pro-terrorist (self-cencored) threadjacked this thread. Hold on boys. I'm back and it will be a long talk now.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Serb



I am SIBERIAN and I am RUSSIAN. Siberian=Russian who lives in Siberia.

Ok. So no one thinks that way in Siberia? Must be some kind of communication problem, because my dad doesn't speak good Russian.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper


What world are you living in, boy? Everywhere I turn — from the local and national newspapers to local news and national news broadcasts — I've seen the Russian hostage incident covered to one degree or another. It sure as hell isn't being shoved away into some corner. If that isn't enough for you, I've gone to any simple frickin' search engine, typed in "Russia" and "hostages" and, voila!, a lot of returns pop up ... a *good* number of them from mainstream news sources.

What more do you want? Your own personal news service? Then cough up the money, buddy, and subscribe to such a service.

The media is crap, huh? Tell me, boy, what's the media to you? That ranting and raving on cable television and talk radio? Your typical tabloid rag? Because if it is, that's not the news media. That's called infotainment, and there's a helluva difference between the two.

Gatekeeper

Ok, calling me Kid is cool, but please don't call me Boy.

Is the coverage anywhere near what it was on 9-11. No. No shows are interupted or anything. This is a major world incident. MAJOR!

[Serb]

Another 7 persons died in hospitals thus death toll reached 330, 155 among them children. Those were the black days for Russia.
Whenever any d!ckhead would try to make another statement like - "they figh only for freedom and I support them in their struggle", remeber about 1,8 years old kid who is dying now in Moscow's hospital, because he and his parents were held hostages during three days without food, water and almost no fresh air and when terrorists started to slughter them by exploding bombs, people start to escape thier tortures and this kid was shot in the back, like many other kinds and adults. Now this kid is dying, and 330 people already dead and almost half of them were children too.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Ok. So no one thinks that way in Siberia? Must be some kind of communication problem, because my dad doesn't speak good Russian.

Most of Siberians do not like Moscovians much. It's true, becuse citizens of Moscow are arrogant fVcks. I know this for sure, since I've spend three years of my life among them
But saying that Siberians don't like Russians, it's like saying that Texans don't like Americans. They do not say like this, do they? They are Americans after all, no?

[Dr Strangelove]

OK, one account says that the terrorists entered the school and had the adults pry up floor boards under which were stashed more weapons, so evidently they did indeed manage to gain entry into the school well in advance and planted weapons.

[Serb]

Before I'll start to express my rage over some terrorists lovers who have spreaded their stinking lies in this thread, I've to remind you the flow of events, since I've noticed that you guys don't have a clear picture of what happened.

First of all, Sept 1 is a special day in Russia. It's a holiday we call "the day of knowledge", the first school day. All Russian schools have celebrations dedicated to this holiday. Parents accompany thier kids to the schools, principals make speeches, teachers get flowers from kids, etc.
When such celebration started in Beslan's school number 1, dozens of armed persons appered from truck, started fire that immidiently killed several people and forced children and thier parents into school building. Police oppened fire to attackers, killed one, but two policeman were wounded and couldn't prevent tack over of the building. Terrorists put children into windows to prevent storm and started to install explosives everywhere. That's how it started. FSB shut down cell connection in entire area, to prevent terrorists from communications with their outside command and outside observers. Then they tried to establish a contact with terrorists. Terrorists released one women with a note which said that 50 children will be executed for any dead terrorist, 20 children for any wounded, and whole building will be exploded in case of storm. No clear demands, except- release prisoners who participated in attack to Ingushetiya, no particular list of prisoners. They also demanded some officials and a famous child doctor for negotiations. They do not allow anyone in the building to bring food, water and medicine for hostages. Time after time they shot from assualt rifles and grenade launchers in direction of counter-terrorist forces.
Day two-
An agreement was made to let doctor whom they demanded for negotiations to enter the building, but when he aproaches the building, they start to shot again.
Still no water, food and medicine for hostages. At evening former head of neighbor Ingushetiya enters the building and after some time walk out with 26 hostages. 12 among them are kinds under 3 (actually 11 were under 2), the rest are woman.
Day three-
During first two days, terrorist executed 20 hostages for disobedience. FSB later shown room where they executed hostages. They throw them to wall, shot them and throw thier bodies out of window. FSB shown that wall and window with traces of bullets and blood.
Diring day 3, an agreement was made to let authorities collect those dead bodies. Four people aproached the building in car and started to recover the dead bodies, but terrorists started to shot them and killed two of them. At the same time inside building detonated to bombs. As vitneses said later, one bomb droped and detonated inside sport hall and one women suicide bomber exploded herself. Explosions lead to collapse of the roof and probably create some holes in the walls. Hostages start to run. Terrorists start to shoot at backs of children and adults that running away from thier torturers. Specnaz opens fire on terrorists to cover escaping children. Most of the hostages are almost naked, becuse not only those ****ers didn't allow them to drink, eat, to fullfil their physilogical demands (no WC), they held them in sport hall with density 3 persons per square meter and didn't allow them to open windows. Another day and they would die becuse of lack of fresh air.
Some terrorists wearing civilian closes try to escape the building among the hostages. Gun fight continues. Specnaz enters the building. One women suicide bomber wearing doctor's clothes tries to approach a hospital and explode hereself there, but it's too many soldiers there and she moves to HQ of anti-terrorists forces where she was captured. Specnaz, police and local militia fight escaped terrorists outside the building. Terrorists try to move into location of railraod station, but found themselves blocked.
Now I have to explain why there were so many militias.
Because Ossetia it's Caucasus and every person over 21 there have a gun, becuase of nearby Chechnya and South Ossetia. Some of their arms are legal, some I believe not, but it could be pretty legal to own hunting rifles. Some of those rifles are no less lethal than army rifles. For example, Saiga carabin is based on Kalashnikov assualt rifle, lesser magazine, no burst mode and other differences, but it's still just a modified AK, and it's still damn lethal. So people in Ossetia are pretty well armed. Now image what would father do, if he has a rifle and his wife and children are being held hostages? He would load his rifle and try to save his loved ones. Now imagine a more than a thousand hostages and their relatives outside, armed and absolutely uncontrolled. When your child is been held hostage, you don't give a **** about anything. How police could stop a crowd of armed relatives who tried to save their children? Open fire on them? With such police you don't need terrorists. So relatives joined police and specnaz, thus letting escape for terrorists easier, since terrorist wearing civilian clothes and relative trying to help with the siege, looks pretty much alike. No one thought about using locals as militia. It's just happened. Had storm was planned, I'm pretty sure soldiers would disarm locals and perhaps evacuate them somewhere, to prevent them from interferece. But it wasn't planned. It was too risky to storm the building this time, becuse terrorits were way better prepared and there were kids. Authorities thought they will solve the situation without storm, perhaps by letting terrorists go wherever they wish and follow them. At least thus number of hostages would be much less and then storm could be possible. But it didn't happen. Terrorists just started to slaughter their victims.
So, after several hours of fighting all terrorists were eliminated. FSB shown bodies of 26 terrorists. 10 among them Arabs, one black man, probably from North Africa. Three terrorists were captured alive.
Over 700 hostages have been rescued. Over 400 hastages still in hospitals almost half of them children.
330 died, 155 among them children.
10 Spetcnaz officers KIA some were covering children by their boddies from terrorist's fire, thus saving their lives, in price of their own. 18 Specnaz wounded.



Black days for Russia.

We seek revenge.

[Ted Striker]

Spetsnaz

Serb, has there been any response or reprisal actions announced yet?