Price Gouging - Fair and balanced, or unfair

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Central organization and local autonomy. Get it.

Oh yes! I get it...the problem is that you reds can't even decide if you WANT a central organization or not! LOL

Seems to me you got a bit of arguing amongst yourself to even get past THAT hurdle before you try pushing your views on the rest of us...

-=Vel=-

We're pretty united against the old type of centralism.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


No one is forcing you to part with it. We just allow others to use other tools like it.

This was probably covered before but EXACTLY WHO is the magical "we"? And why exactly is kidicious part of it?

Oh and how can anyone allow someone to use a tool "like " a tool Vel just invented? Do you assume you can copy his invention WITHOUT taking away the one he made.


oh and WHOOOOOOOOCSSSHHHHHHHHHH-- Thats the sound of me getting sucked into this thread against all my intentions

[Velociryx]

Hate to break it to you, Kid, but Centralism is....centralism.

Put a small group of guys into positions of absolute power and you'll get what we got before.

If that's what you're advocating, then forgive me if I don't wanna sign on...

And back to this device I invent....so I get to keep it, but everybody else gets to make use of duplicates.

And do I get paid for my labor in making the prototype? Do I get compensation?

How is my compensation figured?

Man hours spent working on it? Raw materials? A premium for the creativity needed to think up the thing you couldn't think up on your own? What?

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Welcome, Master Flubber!

And that's an excellent point.

Won't you NEED my prototype to make additional copies?

What if I don't want to give it up?

If you take it anyway, aren't you exploiting me?



-=Vel=-

[Flubber]

I'm still stuck on the idea of getting paid for effort. Personally I am thinking of becoming a male prostitute with clientele of only much younger and incredibly attractive females. If I worked really hard at it (doing advertising and marketing) shouldn't I be paid well even though my output is zero?

After all, as I understand it, the value of a product is irrelevant to how much the worker should get paid. Right??


I assume that kid's "we" wouldn't permit me that job anyway. At their morning meeting they would determine that I should dig ditches with my hands before jumping in their state vehicle and heading out to their state dacha.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
MtG, you rock!

Kid...no, I don't need permission. I buy the toothbrush, I bring it home. End of story. Here in Columbia, at least, we don't have toothbrush cops. If you do where you live, I'd consider a new neighborhood.

Seriously.



-=Vel=-

The Constitution protects your right to own your toothbrush.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber


This was probably covered before but EXACTLY WHO is the magical "we"? And why exactly is kidicious part of it?

Oh and how can anyone allow someone to use a tool "like " a tool Vel just invented? Do you assume you can copy his invention WITHOUT taking away the one he made.


oh and WHOOOOOOOOCSSSHHHHHHHHHH-- Thats the sound of me getting sucked into this thread against all my intentions

The police won't inspect everyones houses looking for inventions. Hopefully you will share it with society. I don't see any reason why you wouldn't since there is no cost involved in it. It will only help everyone.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Hate to break it to you, Kid, but Centralism is....centralism.

Put a small group of guys into positions of absolute power and you'll get what we got before.

If that's what you're advocating, then forgive me if I don't wanna sign on...

I'm much more democratic than you, trust me.

Originally posted by Velociryx
And back to this device I invent....so I get to keep it, but everybody else gets to make use of duplicates.

And do I get paid for my labor in making the prototype? Do I get compensation?

How is my compensation figured?

Man hours spent working on it? Raw materials? A premium for the creativity needed to think up the thing you couldn't think up on your own? What?

-=Vel=-

You get to use your tool. And you're free to share it.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
That's right. You make a much better communist than Vel. Good.

Own goal.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber
After all, as I understand it, the value of a product is irrelevant to how much the worker should get paid. Right??

The utility value will determine what will be produced, and it what quantity. The worker will be paid by how much he, or they, produce.

Originally posted by Flubber
I assume that kid's "we" wouldn't permit me that job anyway. At their morning meeting they would determine that I should dig ditches with my hands before jumping in their state vehicle and heading out to their state dacha.

You will absolutely not be allowed to be a whore.

[Flubber]

To repeat:

Who makes up the "we" that decides all this stuff"?



Also-- if I decide not to share my invention but to simply use it to make the required 10 widgets more quickly, would that be ok with you and your magical "we", or would you pay me les for the same product since I had to work less?

Oh and I still want to know who decides how much work is worth if output is not considered?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


The utility value will determine what will be produced, and it what quantity. The worker will be paid by how much he, or they, produce.

EXCELLENT-- so Vel can keep his tool to himself and earn 10 times the income by producing 10 times as much. I'll also be well off because Vel will share his invention with me ( cause we're buds or whatever) but I use it to reduce my time working so I can mow his lawn.

Originally posted by Kidicious

You will absolutely not be allowed to be a whore.

Why not? Is that a moral judgement? Or is it a judgement on the demand for the product?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber
To repeat:

Who makes up the "we" that decides all this stuff"?

You decide. You give your imput. You make purchases. The planners see what your desires are. They produce the goods and set the prices.

Originally posted by Flubber
Also-- if I decide not to share my invention but to simply use it to make the required 10 widgets more quickly, would that be ok with you and your magical "we", or would you pay me les for the same product since I had to work less?

You won't be paid at all. If you want to use your tool to make things for yourself. That's fine.

Originally posted by Flubber
Oh and I still want to know who decides how much work is worth if output is not considered?

First, realize that this is my idea, and not normal communism. That being said, I think that planners have to study the work environment and plan so that average work gets average pay and so forth.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber


EXCELLENT-- so Vel can keep his tool to himself and earn 10 times the income by producing 10 times as much. I'll also be well off because Vel will share his invention with me ( cause we're buds or whatever) but I use it to reduce my time working so I can mow his lawn.

No. No. He can use his tool to produce things for himself. He can't be paid for using his tool secretly to exploit the system.

[Velociryx]

So...at the end of the day, about all you can tell me is that the one thing you Reds agree on is that the "old kind of centralism" (a la USSR) is definitely out, and in its place will be a new, democratic, kinder, gentler centralization.

I guess then, that leaves all the Reds who are arguing against a statis approach out.

Did they see that memo?

The Constitution protects my right to property, that's certainly true. And even if it didn't, that's such an inconsequential item that I can't envision anybody really wanting to take, HOWEVER, that's a horse of a very different color than what you said. You said something about requiring permission to HAVE the toothbrush, didn't you? The constitution does not grant me that permission. Nowhere in the document does it say "and it's okay to own a toothbrush...go ahead, it won't bite." Protecting my right to do a thing and granting permission are not the same thing. I dunno...maybe in Red-Land they are tho...what do you think?

But you really didn't answer the questions before you.

I make something cool. Something never before seen and productivity enhancing. Made in my spare time, and from my own little creative brain.

Now...first you say that I can keep it, but then you say that everybody else gets to use one "just like it" - so...what if I don't wanna give up the secret of my invention? What then? Doesn't matter that the police aren't doing door to door invention inspections...sooner or later people will start to take note that I'm 20% more productive than everybody else....of course, this means I'm working less hard...so does that mean I get a paycut? (cos you get paid according to how hard you work, right? So while my invention makes me more productive, it makes my job easier...is that a paycut for me? If so, where is my incentive to invent ANYTHING? If not, and if I don't wanna just GIVE the creation that sprang from my brain away, what are you going to do about it?

Further, let's say that you do go ahead and become that which you hate...you exploit me. Sad but true...I'm a dangerous man and with this new tool, I could...I don't know...take over the communist enclave of Bostwana or something. So now I'm a menace, and to prevent the Velicious Menace from doing anything exploitive, you beat me to the punch, and steal my labor to make copies for everybody else to use.

Do they get them free? Does the state pick up the tab for the massive Tool Rollout? Or will the new tool just show up one day with an instruction manual and everybody's pay gets docked X amount to pay the cost?

What if some people are old school and don't wanna use the tool, or just don't wanna see their pay docked? Do they have to anyway?

Layer upon layer of beaurocracy....dizzying. And the opportunities for abuse and fraud...wow.

Kid...before the day of the revolution, you might wanna rethink a few things.

-=Vel=-