Price Gouging - Fair and balanced, or unfair

[Kontiki]

Oh man, this is even better than libertarianism!

[Velociryx]

Okay wait....first you got paid based on how hard you worked...now we're doing it piece rate?

Which is it? I'm not asking to be an arse, but it really DID change in mid-stream.

-=Vel=-

[Kuciwalker]

It's changed multiple times. I already pwned him on that count, a few pages back.

[Kuciwalker]

Ah, here it is:

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Originally posted by Kidicious
Why don't you just make the point you were trying to make? Assume I say that he should be paid equally for his labor regardless of his output, even though I've said that I don't believe in that numerous times. See why I can't answer that question?

Yes, because any answer you give would either be inconsistent with the above claim or with this:

Originally posted by Kidicious
No. The value of labor is not the wage they are paid or the market price of what they produce. It's the amount of labor they put in.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Kid...before the day of the revolution, you might wanna rethink a few things.

-=Vel=-

Well I do think about it a lot, and you bring up a good point that I have not thought about. You can't be allowed to exploit the system obviously, but you should be encouraged to increase your efficiency.

[Velociryx]

Nice one...

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Okay wait....first you got paid based on how hard you worked...now we're doing it piece rate?

Which is it? I'm not asking to be an arse, but it really DID change in mid-stream.

-=Vel=-

Doesn't working hard allow you to make more?

[Velociryx]

Then you're welcome.

The problem with your approach, as I see it, is that any solution TO the problem turns you into what you despise.

If I make something and choose not to cooperate...choose not to just give it up for the state, then your only recourse is to steal MY labor...which is what you say you're against.

That means then, that the entire system built upon a fallacy.

-=Vel=-

[Kuciwalker]

But sometimes, you can work less and make more, because you have access to one of Vel's tools.

[Velociryx]

Right....Kid, there's a difference between hard work and smart work.

I can take vivarin for a week straight and produce a ****eload of whatever we're making....that's hard work.

Or, I can invent something that streamlines the process.

Now I can make as many as I was making before, but it only takes me six hours of labor instead of eight.

That's smart work.

Under your proposed system, any tool that allows me to do this will mean I get a paycut.

Under the piece-rate system, I'll be able to blow everybody's doors off and get a fat raise.

Can't have it both ways tho.

-=Vel=-

[Flubber]

kid just curious

how does it feel to constantly propose that which 99.5% of people reject and which has about as much chance of happening as me putting myself in moon orbit from a running start


Oh and your last few posts seem inconsistent even contradictory to me.

IF


quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious


The utility value will determine what will be produced, and it what quantity. The worker will be paid by how much he, or they, produce.

----------me
It seems producing more gets paid more .. . so if I figure out any way to work faster, I will get paid more



BUT then you say

--------------

"No. No. He can use his tool to produce things for himself. He can't be paid for using his tool secretly to exploit the system."

-----------------------------------
me again

It seems to me that you have crated a system where there is absolutely no incentive to create or innovate. Why would Vel bother to make his new tool (it required work) if he gets no benefit. Nor would his group of co-workers get any benefit. The only benefit would be to the "state" and I can't see folks busting a gut for that. Oh and paying me for my time to build the thing is useless . .. I already get the same wage for building widgets at the state factory

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Then you're welcome.

The problem with your approach, as I see it, is that any solution TO the problem turns you into what you despise.

If I make something and choose not to cooperate...choose not to just give it up for the state, then your only recourse is to steal MY labor...which is what you say you're against.

That means then, that the entire system built upon a fallacy.

-=Vel=-

I wouldn't be stealing your labor at all. I would be stealing your idea. What is the cost to you?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Under the piece-rate system, I'll be able to blow everybody's doors off and get a fat raise.

Can't have it both ways tho.

-=Vel=-

I guess there would have to be a ceiling on your pay, but right now I'm just shooting from the hip.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I wouldn't be stealing your labor at all. I would be stealing your idea. What is the cost to you?

The reality is that if you steal ANYTHING, it just won't exist to steal again. The inventor with 10 other great ideas, won't build or make them since they are so peeved at how you treated them

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
I wouldn't be stealing your labor at all. I would be stealing your idea. What is the cost to you?

So thinking isn't labor? No one who doesn't perform heavy manual work isn't doing "labor"?