Price Gouging - Fair and balanced, or unfair

[Kuciwalker]

Kid: when we "put words in your mouth", what we're doing is reductio ad absurdum - we're taking what you've said to its logical conclusion to demonstrate a contradiction or unacceptable consequences. It's not a personal attack or anything, simply a (widely used) method of argumentation.

[Velociryx]

Now we get to the crux of the matter.

It's only fair when Kid gets to tell us how we can live.

THEN its fair.

Does that sum it up?

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

In the long run we're all dead - John Maynard Keynes

That's nice, but I don't give a flip about a random Keynes statement.

If the long term benefits far outweigh the short term cost, then who cares for some short term disruptions? Or are you saying that we should NOT curb carbon emissions in the present because "in the long run we're all dead"? Sounds like Keynes was quite a hedonist then, eh?

There are no long run benefits if you can't solve your problems in the short run. That's what he meant.

[Kuciwalker]

So far, we always have solved the short run problems then - because we've derived the long run benefits.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
The thing I don't get is this:

What IS it with you people and this paranoid NEED to control?

This burning NEED to stick your noses into everybody else's business and tell us all how to live, where to live, where we can (and cannot) work. What our maximum salary can be, how we can use our own inventions.....

The list goes on and on.

What is it you are so afraid of?

-=Vel=-

It's neither fear or paranoia. It's a basic desire for justice.

[Agathon]

This burning NEED to stick your noses into everybody else's business and tell us all how to live, where to live, where we can (and cannot) work. What our maximum salary can be, how we can use our own inventions.....

Capitalism does a pretty good job of that for most people.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


it's the only possible system for the future.

WHY?


I like the current system of democratic regulated capitalism ( I think Canada works fine thanks-- lots of problems but less than what I see in what you advocate). If I work hard, I get ahead-- if I don't my ass gets fired .. . seems "fair" to me

If I make money that I can save-- I accumulate wealth-- thats fair even if I have more or less than my neighbor

The government takes a chunk of my money and uses it to help out those with disabilities, mental and health problems AND those that are too lazy to get off their fat asses-- I find that fair too

I like our system and about the only thing that would cause me to bear arms would be the types of enforced "government" as proposed by kidicious. I would fight this until the day I died

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx

How is consumption going to magically generate tools?

No. You sacrifice current consumption for tool production.

[Velociryx]

So let me get this straight.

You don't trust.

Because you don't trust, the only possible way for their to be justice is to have tight control over every aspect of what everybody in your utopia is doing, how they do it, when and where they do it....the whole ball of wax.

And you're saying that ONLY THEN will we have "justice."

Oh.

My.

God.

:: speechless::

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Flubber....and you would not be alone, bro...I got your back!

Aggie....d'oh! I don't recall seeing anybody from the Columbia People's Housing Authority coming with me to pick out my home.....did they miss that memo?

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber


Right-- but the bulldozer was an innovation that was once hard on the planners . Under your system the inventor has no incentive to share it--really no incentive to build it at all-- so guess what it doesn't get built as fast.

So the planned economy has a 100 workers with shovels while the capitalist economy has 1 guy IN a bulldozer and a couple of dozen making bulldozers . The rest of the workforce are probably making other innovations.

Tell you what, my capitalist economy will sell you a bulldozer but that will be a net outflow of capital and since you can't borrow the money, I hope you have the cash--Perhaps you are more efficient in other areas and can actually generate a surplus

When did I say to use shovels instead of bulldozers when bulldozers are more efficient?

[Velociryx]

No. You sacrifice current consumption for tool production

Ahhh....so instead of building in a profit, we'll just levy more taxes. Good loophole. I like it.

When did I say to use shovels instead of bulldozers when bulldozers are more efficient?

Well let's see now....that would have been around the time you said that it's the amount of WORK involved....not the productivity. So yeah...shovels = more work. That's gotta be better.

-=Vel=-

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


It's neither fear or paranoia. It's a basic desire for justice.

Who's justice? The one dictated by the magical " we'?


My justice involves equality of opportunity. My grandfathers were both labourers, my parents a teacher and a nurse, me a lawyer married to a nurse. I do better than average financially and gol-darn-it-- I deserve it-- I work harder than average, have taken more education than average etc etc

soo if soemone makes less than me, my justice says boo-hooo-- I have no problem paying my Canadian taxes which support the needy and I give generously to my chosen charities-- but if some ablebodied person out there makes less than me --- I'll say it again BOOHOOO

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Now we get to the crux of the matter.

It's only fair when Kid gets to tell us how we can live.

THEN its fair.

Does that sum it up?

-=Vel=-

You don't want to let this go do you? I'm a firm believer in democracy.

[Velociryx]

How is allowing this mythical "we" (of which you will no doubt be a part of) telling me how to run EVERY aspect of my daily life strike you as democratic?

Please tell...I'm dying to know!

-=Vel=-