Ahh, Women...

[Pekka]

And no, I didn't mean that complexity isn't complexity by definiton. That would be kind of weird argument. What I meant is, that what we understand by the complexity of a woman is not the complexity that we mean with that word. Maybe I exaplined myself little difficult, but by the time I got here, you missed my point, and that lead you to miss this point also, and the bottom line point at the end. The whole post was one big argument, and to brake it down like that makes it out of the context.

I'll try again.

Woman says 'I don't like that you don't argue with me', really meaning 'I want to hear that you care for me'.
The first sentence doesnt' really make the second sentence a fact. The first sentence means that she doesn't lkie that someone doesn't argue her. Everything else is just signal or indication to another thing what she really is trying to say or mean. But the first sentence remains. And the man, understanding the words, understand what the sentence REALLY means, not what it is supposed to mean (I want to hear ..). Now, a man says, well why don't you say that then? Well, women are more complex than men, or men are just more simple.

Just because someone would claim, that woman is more complex, it doesn't make her arguments facts. Men rely on facts most of the times, simple facts. Women try to say, it's not that simple, trying to defy facts. They hide it under the word 'complex'. That's what I mean by complexity is taken out of its very definition by a woman. Because what the word really means, is again, hidden by that horrible agenda of scrambling and defying simple facts.

And yes, of course complex and simple co-exists, because they're each others opposites. But what woman tries to hide as complex thing doesn't equal complex by its very factual definition.

Now, women are supposed to be in touch with their emotions, and express themselves, and taht's the part that men sometimes have hard time understanding, because they express those complex issues, and that would equal the complex behaviour. NOW if you disagree with that, that it's not the same as complex behaviour, the two don't connect, then women are NOT in touch with their feelings. And then there is just no explanation for the complex behaviour AT ALL. And thus, there is no excuse for it. Or even if you agree, tha tyes, the complex behaviour is because in fact they have complex thoughts, then again it doesn't justify complex behaviour because it in fact isn't complex, because if it was, it would still have to rely on facts.

[Pekka]

complex=opposite of simple=opposite of fact=BS.

NO!

you took it out of the context again. Take in to account the woman complex, and the REAL complex, that is based on facts. It's a whole different thing.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Pekka
Yes I did come up with simple men doing complex things. I said, that complexity is a simple definition. Complex does not equal non-facts. Complex is a fact that is not simple, and that fact is simple itself. By this I was trying to say, that you can't say something is complex if you can't understand it, and still think it's a fact. Men debate and do their stuff simple, basing their arguments on facts, and using words by their definition. You can't hide behind that just saying 'well my argument is so complex'.

Wait who is the guy who said "my argument is complex" here again?

If it's non-factual, well it basically is BS. We don't even need the love example at all in here.

"Do you love me?" Which part is non-factual in that sentence?
"Why don't you want to argue with me?" Which part is non-factual in that sentence?
Talking about BS.

Ah so I'm the one trying to explain complex behaviour is because of things are so complex? Yeah I'm the one, but I'm not the only one. The famous saying is that women are complex and men are simple, because men don't understand women sometiems with their stuff. Because they don't say things how the mean, but they expect you to pick up signs and know what she REALLY means. That's the BS in action right there.

No hear me say it, again. The non-understanding is mutual.
If you don't want to pick up signs, that's fine. And if she doesn't want to learn to understand you, that's fine too. You two just don't have to live together, see? How simple is that? If you want to live togethe, well, you may simply WANT to understand each other. And that is a fact.

Ok let me be more straight forward. The part that is troubling you, is that you want to change women. One can learn, and grow. But one should not expect to change somebody. You can get more by learing, so be more understanding toward each other in this case, but you cannot become less by cutting some behaviors. Just like you can grow taller, but not shorter.

And no, definition and facts are different things. You took my explanation completely out of the context of the whole explanation thing, and then named the words with letters, and over simplyfying the simple post itself, ultimately making it more complex.

Ahh now I'm oversimplifying. And you are still not satisfied? What do you really want me to be? Complex? Or simple?

(ps. Yes you can never win. Too bad. I'm a woman. )

Read the other post where I put it more simple. Should make more sense if the first one didn't, which it clearly didn't.

Yes I did. And it helped a lot to demonstrate how faulty you are.

[Pekka]

And I'm stereotyping here a little, not all women are alike, not all men are alike. If they would, you would spontaniously stop to exists because of my facts .

[Colonâ„¢]

Pekka is getting pwned by a girl.

[Pekka]

Snowflake, yes man can be complex too, when he relies on facts on complex issues. A woman is complex but doesn't rely on facts, making it a women complex thing, which should have it's own word so it wouldn't mix up wiht things. I'll let you catch up, you're little behind me like few posts.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Barinthus
Yep hence the PM , SF.

Whoa, I had to go thru like 4 pages of this thread. Forgive me if I skimmed most of it.

You know, I think I figured out what my problem is. I cook, wash dishes, put dishes away, clean, tend the gardens, give her a massage, cuddle with her, rub her feet, make the bed, do laundry (what can I do, I've been a bachelor for too long).

Then when I sit down so I can read a book, she comes in and ask me to do and this. Eventually I start to feel unappreciated since I have pretty much done most of other chores and naturally I become cranky hence the arguments.

I guess the solution is just stop doing some of those stuff?

No. Please don't. All you have been doing are wonderful. But she needs to realize that and learn not to take it for granted. But just don't go all bullistic when she comes in when you are finally getting your own time. Talk to her when you are giving her a massage. Tell her how you feel. How you love her and what you would love her to do so you would also feel appreciated. She'd actually appreciate you telling her about your feelings.

[Pekka]

"Why don't you want to argue with me?" Which part is non-factual in that sentence?

The whole sentence.

Jeesh! I explained this already and it wasn't COMPLEX at all.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Pekka
Snowflake, yes man can be complex too, when he relies on facts on complex issues. A woman is complex but doesn't rely on facts, making it a women complex thing, which should have it's own word so it wouldn't mix up wiht things.

Yes. It is a fact. Live with it.

I'll let you catch up, you're little behind me like few posts.

Pahh I can just skip them. I'm a woman.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Spec


You see, that's the problem right there. Why dont yo take it out your self?

The problem is:

Girls always ask the boyfriend to do stuff....or tells him to do stuff but the boy does it by himself instyead of asking. And if we ask, it's a sure ''no''.

Spec.

so true, so very true. of couyrse when you suggest that she do it herself you are met with, "i already asked you to do it"

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Pekka
And I'm stereotyping here a little, not all women are alike, not all men are alike. If they would, you would spontaniously stop to exists because of my facts .

You can still pretend that. Afterall who tells you that you are a fact? May be you are simply an imagination of the Thing himself.

[Pekka]

"Ok let me be more straight forward. The part that is troubling you, is that you want to change women. One can learn, and grow. But one should not expect to change somebody. "

Fair enough. I try to change one woman, and all the women of the world try to change men.
And yeah, I took it out of the context, just like you have done with my one big argument. Which indicates I'm a woman, but let's just say I had a brainfart.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by MRT144


so true, so very true. of couyrse when you suggest that she do it herself you are met with, "i already asked you to do it"

Often times though, when she was asking you to do something, like taking out the trash, she is doing something else, like bathing the kids. It's not like she is sitting in the sofa with you and watching the TV with a beer in her hands. Now how's that for a sterotype.

[Pekka]

No you can't skip it because there is no one and two arguments in the theory, it's one big of an argument. I try to put it as short as possible:

When we talk about women being complex, it doesn't necessarily equal the word complex. Complex is still based on facts, while we talk about women being complex, it doesn't necessarly mean they have issues that are based on facts, and they're just complex. That's the emotional thing. Women are more emotional. Complex. So far so good? You've tried to refute this argument, and you really have to come up with huge assasination argument to kill this.

There are two different complexes. The factual complex, and the woman complexity.

Now, a woman that is in touch with her emotions as people claim, if she is, then it shows in her action. It manifests in her actions, because she is touch with her emoitons and feelings. Now, if a woman acts irrationally, we say it's the emotions. But since it's woman complex, and not factual complex, there is no excuse for the behaviour.

If you disagree and say, well it's not the same thing, the mental complexity and actions, then well how do you explain the actions then? Even less excuses, plus then you are saying women are not so in touch with their emotions. Either way, this is why I say it's BS on action.

[Barinthus]

No kids in the picture. She's usually napping, chatting with the neighbors, reading, or writing letters/journals.

Granted she could be doing something although for my life, I can't figure what it could be. If I was a lazy slob who did nothing, I'd understand her asking me to do this or that.

However I'm not a lazy slob and whatever has to be done will be done. I just need breaks too.

I'm afraid it's more complicated than this although.