Ahh, Women...

[Pekka]

No. I don't have to say regular to the bartender all the time. Because if he can't remember, then it really is'nt a regular now is it? Regular is an understanding, an agreement between the bartender and you, it doesn't exists unless you both recognize it. However, a bartender has many customers, and many regulars to remember. And bartender STILL learns your regular at some point. But women never stop. And they have only one customer...

[Gibsie]

Jesus Christ, I've created a monster of a thread. Where are all the spammy responses?!

[Japher]

sorry gibsie...

We need to return to the 50s where the women stayed at home, cooked dinner, did all the clean, did as they were told, and slept in separate beds, if not a whole other room all together!

[Pekka]

Japher, that's not what I mean and you know it!!

[Gibsie]

you sissy

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Japher
sorry gibsie...

We need to return to the 50s where the women stayed at home, cooked dinner, did all the clean, did as they were told, and slept in separate beds, if not a whole other room all together!

3/10, cuz no one's going to bite it. Amusing though.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Pekka
I feel it destroys it, because I feel that my definiton of love is more complex than your traditional one, but when we say women are more complex than men, and if I come up with more complex definition.. and I have to say agian, you said that mens as if stone definiton is simpler, and mine is simular to the stone thing, but at the same time it woudl be more complex than the traditional one, just for the sake that it is traditional and simple defnition, then in fact if the simpler is more complex, then that situation is truly complex and not simple. So, at the same time if it is complex, then how can you justify the emotional complexity of women that makes their actions complex, where as my actions are simple and by definition? What's your excuse to step out of the definiton agreed worldwide anyway? It's fact, and if you step out of it, it's not a fact, and if you call it complexity, and I come up with simple definition, that is more complex than your traditional simple definition, then that situation is complex. Do you understand? And that DOESN'T mean that it proves that there are complex things. Because there are complex things and that is simple. But the complex things, the whole issue of complexity doesnt' explain the complex behaviour and make the other one simple. The simple follows the definiton, making it a fact, and when the other one is not a fact, it doesn't mean it's complex, it means it's BS. And when it manifests itself in action, well that's BS in action.

Simple.

How about we make A = simple, or simpler and B = complex, or complexity

I feel it destroys it, because I feel that my definiton of love is more B than your traditional one, but when we say women are more B than men, and if I come up with more B definition.. and I have to say agian, you said that mens as if stone definiton is A, and mine is simular to the stone thing, but at the same time it woudl be more B than the traditional one, just for the sake that it is traditional and A defnition, then in fact if the A is more B, then that situation is truly B and not A.

Let's disregard the word "traditional" for now because this would be a whole different argument.

The facts you laid out are:
Pekka believes pekka torture love definition is B and Snowflake's alive in the heart love definition is A
"we" say women are B and men are A
pekka is a man and he comes up with torture love definition
Snowflake believes men's stone love definition is A

Your reasoning is if your belief is right than how could a simply man like you come up with a more complex definition so that would mean what "we" said is not right. Or if both are right then the whole situation is complex.

What you didn't address is if you are wrong and if Snowflake is right then the whole thing is actually pretty cohesive. Further you didn't address whether it is actually quite possible for a simple men to come up with a complex definition.

Now let's see how you make the second jump.

So, at the same time if it is B, then how can you justify the emotional B of women that makes their actions B, where as my actions are A and by definition? What's your excuse to step out of the definiton agreed worldwide anyway? It's fact, and if you step out of it, it's not a fact, and if you call it B, and I come up with A definition, that is more B than your traditional A definition, then that situation is B.

First you say if the situation is complex, then one cannot justify women being complex and man being simple. Then you try to support this statement. You claim one has no excuse to step out of definition and call it complex. Lots of loopholes here. First you introduced a new concept, "definition". And then you use one unsupported claim to support another unsupported claim. Then you short change "definition" into "fact" and say if one step out of fact then it's not a fact. And then you come back to your original unsupported claim, that if you call women complex, and pekka who is a man comes out with a snowflake claimed simple definition which is more complex than Snowflakes pekka claimed simple definition, then the situation is complex.

I'll give you that the situation is complex, or you have made the situation complex, perhaps more so than it really need to be. But that doesn't say anything about excuses for complex behaviours of emotional women.

And that DOESN'T mean that it proves that there are complex things.

Oh no. It proves nothing.

Because there are complex things and that is simple. But the complex things, the whole issue of complexity doesnt' explain the complex behaviour and make the other one simple.

Exactly. Nobody is trying to use this whole issue of complexity to explain the complex behavior, except you.

The simple follows the definiton, making it a fact, and when the other one is not a fact, it doesn't mean it's complex, it means it's BS. And when it manifests itself in action, well that's BS in action.

We are getting desperate here aren't we. Using "BS" and such. But I really hate to disappoint you. Definition is a concept that related to human being's cognition. Fact on the other hand is not dependent on human beings. Further more, it really has nothing to do with whether women have excuses for their complexity and emotional behavior.

Phew, that is a lot of trying to understand going on there. Unfortunetaly we are not achieving much I'm afraid.

[Edit] Changed the word "that" to "than". Don't intend to make it more complexed with my misspelling, no matter how much a woman I am.

[Japher]

Holy crap Snowflake !!! I was just smashed by a giant post!!!

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Snowflake


I thoughy you just misspelled Barinthus. Afterall you CMNed my favorate pbem.

Glad you liked the pbem

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Pekka
I answered to that! Read it again! And that proves my point again, yes, complex to read, but in fact very simple!
Women complexity is not complexity by definition. In fact you have taken complexity OUT of the definiton, making my whole point. Complexity and simplicity can and do co-exist, like I said while my definiton was very simple, it was still more complex than your definiton, that was however simple too. And that situation is complex.

Ahh, that makes much more sense. Simplicity and complexity can and do co-exist. Whohoo! We've got an agreement there.

Now let's look at the issue again. First you complain about women being complex and hard to understand. And then you claim women complexity is not complexity by definition. And then you are not sure about whether your definition is simpler, or my definition is simpler. And then you claim the situation is complex.

I'd agree to your last point. And ask, what is your problem again? Are you on a crusade to deprive women of the accused unexisting complexity?

So, that said, you say simple, I say fact. Simple men, because they rely on facts. They rely talking with words that means like they're defined. When women don't follow the rules, you say it's because women are more complex. Simple, based on facts.. complex.. suddenly it's not only the opposite of simple, it's also the opposite of facts. We should concentrate on the facts and not facts, because if it's not a fact, then it's BS. But you wrap it and claim it's complex, when it really is just BS, by definiton, and fact, and fact is the same as right. So basically it's simple vs BS. And when simple proves itself right, the BS keeps on going, and that's draining for men. 'they don't understand us' translates into 'they don't feel like trying to understand all the non-factual BS'. So, why don't we just stick with facts but try to make the other one learn mixed signals aka mixed BS? And the only thing that really makes it complex, by definition, is that you're trying to wrap this complex thing, and change the definition of it. BS doesn't mean complex. BS means BS!

You are making yourself clearer now. All the time you just wanted to say simple=fact=right, and complex=opposite of simple=opposite of fact=BS. Why don't you just say so and had to behave like a women by making everything so complex?

Now that your whole argument is laid out in those two series of nice equations, everybody can see the fault in your analysis. I don't really need to go on any more do I?

YEs.. when we now know, that what women mean by complex is in fact BS and not complex by definition (read: Fact), and then manifests this in action, doing things, saying things, demanding things.. it's ntohing but BS in action . Just no excuse!

OMG you've really got a problem in logic pekka. Now you introduced another concept "complex by definition" which equal to "complex by fact". Do you realize you have been treating "complex" as "non fact" and suddenly you are contradicting yourself by claiming there is some "complexity" that is "by definition (read: fact)"?

Quite messed up I'd say.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Japher
Holy crap Snowflake !!! I was just smashed by a giant post!!!

Yes and to tell you the truth, I don't even know what the heck I've written.

You know I've always said that I'm a woman and I have a simple mind. Must be really shocking to pekka that I'm a fact that exist outside of his definition of women.

[Pekka]

Yes I did come up with simple men doing complex things. I said, that complexity is a simple definition. Complex does not equal non-facts. Complex is a fact that is not simple, and that fact is simple itself. By this I was trying to say, that you can't say something is complex if you can't understand it, and still think it's a fact. Men debate and do their stuff simple, basing their arguments on facts, and using words by their definition. You can't hide behind that just saying 'well my argument is so complex'.
If it's non-factual, well it basically is BS. We don't even need the love example at all in here.

Ah so I'm the one trying to explain complex behaviour is because of things are so complex? Yeah I'm the one, but I'm not the only one. The famous saying is that women are complex and men are simple, because men don't understand women sometiems with their stuff. Because they don't say things how the mean, but they expect you to pick up signs and know what she REALLY means. That's the BS in action right there.

And no, definition and facts are different things. You took my explanation completely out of the context of the whole explanation thing, and then named the words with letters, and over simplyfying the simple post itself, ultimately making it more complex.

Read the other post where I put it more simple. Should make more sense if the first one didn't, which it clearly didn't.

[Japher]

/me runs away from snowflake, and doesn't look back

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Barinthus


Glad you liked the pbem

But you didn't know which one it is do you?

And you don't really know who I am either.

[Barinthus]

Yep hence the PM , SF.

Whoa, I had to go thru like 4 pages of this thread. Forgive me if I skimmed most of it.

You know, I think I figured out what my problem is. I cook, wash dishes, put dishes away, clean, tend the gardens, give her a massage, cuddle with her, rub her feet, make the bed, do laundry (what can I do, I've been a bachelor for too long).

Then when I sit down so I can read a book, she comes in and ask me to do and this. Eventually I start to feel unappreciated since I have pretty much done most of other chores and naturally I become cranky hence the arguments.

I guess the solution is just stop doing some of those stuff?