France!

[GePap]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


really, GePap, youre better than this post.


Of course homophobic and racist hatecrimes are terrible, as are antisemitic ones.

Clearly homophobia and racism are important problems in America. As antisemitism is in France.

The incidents referenced above led to soul searching in America, at least among the more thoughtful classes. And to a renewed focus on hate crimes here. I hope M. Chirac will lead France in soul searching wrt antisemitism.

I will not prejudge his efforts.

I am supposed to be better than sarcasm aimed at Drake's blatant Francophobia?

The French government at least makes more of a noise combating anti-semitism than our government does about fighting homophobia.

[Pekka]

Doesn't surprise me. In here no one ever helps anyone in cases like this. There was a rape in Helsinki, in a middle of the road, and people walked by. It was night, but there was people, no one helped the woman and the rapist was alone. Someone called the cops, but no one helped. The reason is too familiar, if you help, you'll get sentenced as well. Most likely even more harshly than the attacker. It's a known fact that if man rapes a woman, and another man sees it and comes and beats the rapist (not even to hospital), the man helping will get bigger sentence, it's a fact. It's sad. But if you're being beat up in here, expect no one to come helping you. They'll just walk by.

[Spiffor]

We French have a reputation of being always ten years late in comparison with the US. We are indeed discovering the horror of hate crimes these years, while the US had already enough time to stop being shocked by them at home.

[Bereta_Eder]

in the US they kill a person like every 5 minutes...
no comparison forget it.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Argos65987
Doesn't the fact that it was on a train and no one came to her defense bother anyone else about this incident?

It's really bothersome, and sadly it is really common whenever someone is attacked in public: pretty much nobody acts, for fear of trouble.

It doesn't have to do with antisemitism, because it happens all the time for all kinds of agressions

[Pekka]

RIght. It's more like strangers are grabbing a hold on other strangers 'don't go there, you'll get hurt'.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Downplaying the problem?

Chirac always trys to deflect criticism like many people on this thread have, by claiming that anti-Semitism in France is no more widespread and dangerous than hate crimes in other nations. That's BS and downplays the problem.

False.
Chirac has very little political vision, but the country's social cohesion is one of the few problems he understands to be capital.

If anybody in the ruling team is really concerned about antisemitism (and other forms of racism, which are very destructive as well, although in a different way), it's Chirac.

Unfortunately, this government will not give money to try solving problems. The only thing that will get done is more policing, and probably the introduction of the notion of hate crime in our legislation.
The terrible integration problems that are facing our immigrants (especially second-generation Arabs and Blacks) will not be adressed, because Chirac won't have the money to build decent housing, to offer free language lessons to immigrants, to improve school results in the impoverished areas, to really act against racist discrimination at hiring...

All of these factors dramatically affect the hatred many of our poor (read: many of our Arabs and Blacks) feel about the rest of France, the Jews in particular, who have a reputation of having mucho money.

In short, Chirac may want to act, but the government isn't giving him money in order to be any efficient.

[Cruddy]

Could have been worse. They could have used those knives for more than threats.

Anyway, if she'd have been a defensive expert instead of believing "the system will protect me" the world would be free of 3 idiots.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap


I am supposed to be better than sarcasm aimed at Drake's blatant Francophobia?

The French government at least makes more of a noise combating anti-semitism than our government does about fighting homophobia.

I have found that on those occasions when I have trod the line of decency, it is usually in response to someone elses indecent, trollish, or just plain stupid posts. You have rightly called me on those occasions.

Your own post did not quote Drake directly. It could be read as yet another "antisemitism in Europe isnt a real concern, its just an excuse for eurobashing" posts.

One neednt be a eurobasher to be concerned about this.

As for US dealing with homophobic hatecrimes, thats generally done at the local level in the US, since thats where our police are controlled. IIUC the police in France report to the national Interior Minister.

We also had a national commision a few years ago to look at issues of racism.

I would also add, that if there were a conflict somwhere in the world in which one side was black and one was not (like Zimbabwe for example) and the black side asked the US to not participate as a mediator, citing US problems with racist violence, I for one would think that a very reasonable request.

[GePap]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Your own post did not quote Drake directly. It could be read as yet another "antisemitism in Europe isnt a real concern, its just an excuse for eurobashing" posts.

I have to say I do think this is Drake's main point, just to Bash France and that he does not care much about the underlying problem. If this occured in Italy, would he have posted? I don't know, but I doubt it.

Drake is a untrustworthy source when it comes to anything French.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap


I have to say I do think this is Drake's main point, just to Bash France and that he does not care much about the underlying problem. If this occured in Italy, would he have posted? I don't know, but I doubt it.

Drake is a untrustworthy source when it comes to anything French.

during the height of things in 2002, there was a very nasty cartoon printed in an Italian paper. Bloggers and others made a big stink, and the usual "youre blowing antisemitism out of proportion" folks responded. Dont know about Drake, but this comes up for other countries than France.

[GePap]

I am sure it does- Drake brought it upon himself by claiming these sorts of attacks never happen in the US-which is a really dumb claim to make but also speaks to the nature of the thread (bash France).

As for the issue itself- from what I have heard the French State takes it very seriously.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap
I am sure it does- Drake brought it upon himself by claiming these sorts of attacks never happen in the US-which is a really dumb claim to make but also speaks to the nature of the thread (bash France).

Drake:

"This isn't street violence. A woman and her 13-month old child were attacked on a train, in the suburbs, just because someone thought they were Jews. That never happens in America."

The above is an accurate statement as far as it goes. Maybe that misses the point, but the same is true for lots of statements on all sides on this forum.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Argos65987


Doesn't the fact that it was on a train and no one came to her defense bother anyone else about this incident?

The bystanders were all French. They saw swastikas and surrendered. (Sorry, Spiff)

[Gibsie]

Wow, imagine the outrage if they'd actually been Jews who were attacked, and not just regular (and therefore smelly) French people.