Why were there so many sexual abuse problems in the RCC?

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The reason why they enforce celibacy is because they take Paul's admonishment seriously, that the one who is celibate can keep his full attention to God, whereas the one who is married finds his attentions divided.

Exactly. Non-catholics don't seem to understand this. Its not banned because marriage or sex is bad, its so the priest can dedicate his mind (and body) completely to god, and to his parishoners.

Maybe its a problem for priests who aren't willing to commit to this, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it. I think the church ought to be more selective in who it chooses to be ordained, but its tought now since the numbers of people entering the priesthood are at historic lows.

[Alexander's Horse]

I suspect celibacy was introduced more to save money and to protect the church from scandal.

Catholic clergy are a pretty smart bunch where money is concerned.

[DanS]

Bankrupting your archdiocese through pedo lawsuits must be about the silliest fiduciary mistake imaginable.

I guess the church has never been up against the rapacious American legal system before.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


As do I. I expected more.

Ehhh. Add in schizophrenics, neurotics, the depressed, drunks, druggies, the retarded, the crippled and the criminals and it gets to be a really, really heavy burden on the remaining healthy minority.

[DanS]

Another archdiocese bites the dust. Portland just went bankrupt.

[Ming]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
Exactly. Non-catholics don't seem to understand this. Its not banned because marriage or sex is bad, its so the priest can dedicate his mind (and body) completely to god, and to his parishoners.

Hmmmm...

The history of celibacy

The tradition of celibacy seems to be exclusively Christian and to have been connected from the beginning with the virtue of chastity. It is evident that Jesus remained unmarried, but the reference to the apostle Peter's mother in law (Mark 1:30) indicates that not all of Jesus' followers were unmarried. The letters of St Paul make it clear that at least some of the early Church leaders (its bishops and priests) were married (Letter to Timothy 3:1-5).

There was no law established in the first three or four centuries. There is evidence, however, that even at this time many priests were unmarried or withdrew from marriage after ordination. Further evidence suggests that the people did not always approve of married clergy, and there is reference to people being urged not to stop going to services just because they were being led by a married priest.

The Council of Elvira in Spain (about 306 A.D.) forbade all bishops, priests and deacons from having wives. This practice then began to apply to the whole of the Western Church through various Papal decrees from Pope Damasus I onwards. Damasus regarded sexual intercourse as 'defilement' (a legal impurity rather than a sin, along the lines of the Old Testament Jewish laws - see Leviticus 15:18).


The so-called 'Dark Ages', however, saw a decline in priestly morale and discipline as society itself fell into turmoil. About 1018, Pope Benedict VIII responded against this decline and brought in stronger laws to support clerical celibacy and made it impossible for the children of priests to inherit property (which had often been church property in the first place). This move was strongly supported by Pope Gregory VII (1073-1085) and his application of existing rules is regarded as the first effective enforcement of clerical celibacy.

The Second Lateran Council in 1139 seems to provide the first written law that made it impossible for a cleric to get married. Later, after the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century, the Council of Trent (a meeting of the bishops of the Church, held in North Italy) reaffirmed the tradition of celibacy in 1563. Yet, despite arguments from some of the bishops present, the Council said that it was not a law that came from God but a Church tradition that could be changed. It said, too, that the Church's position on celibacy in no way minimised its high regard for marriage: the two callings were quite distinct and had their own distinctive demands.

It was banned for many different reasons... Many historians say the most important reason was based in the middle ages, where the second son was always sent to the priesthood to avoid any problems with the inheritance of the first son and his family. By making it against the rules for them to inherite land, and not allowing them to get married and have "legal" children, the first sons rights were protected. This whole "so they can dedicate their minds and body to god" stuff is just a bunch of after the fact crap

[Agathon]

No it's not, Ming. In part it's an instance of the influence that Greek Platonist philosophy had on early Xtian thinkers.

In fact if they had read Plato properly they would have seen that he recommended that they stop messing about with boys.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Agathon
No it's not, Ming. In part it's an instance of the influence that Greek Platonist philosophy had on early Xtian thinkers.

There are many different opinions on the subject

I just wanted to point out the fact that one... This didn't come from Jesus... and was not in fact something done from the beginning of the church. The rules have varied during the early period of the church. And second, argue against the "body and soul" comment.

[Agathon]

Fair enough.

[DanS]

I just wanted to point out the fact that one... This didn't come from Jesus... and was not in fact something done from the beginning of the church. The rules have varied during the early period of the church. And second, argue against the "body and soul" comment.

You are correct that the rule didn't come from the early church (well, 306 AD is pretty early church), but the tradition did, as BK pointed out. It's not something set in stone (married priest converts to catholicism can stay married in the priesthood, after all). The rule can change, but if you know the church at all, you can guess that the tradition won't change. You aren't going to have a bunch of married catholic priests running around. Just not going to happen.

[Arrian]

It became a big issue for these reasons, IMO:

1) Power/Trust.

2) Access. Lots of little kids around.

3) The coverups. Church hierarchy, taboo, dislike of scandal, and the forgiveness over punishment thing.

1+2 probably = more of those with the urges actually give in to them, since they actually have the opportunity.

I might have a thing for supermodels, see. But I'm an average joe, and supermodels aren't abundant in my life. But if I were a rock star... perhaps I'd be nailing supermodels left and right and not buying a ring for my current girlfriend? I dunno, since I've not been in that situation. But it seems plausible to me that if you have a certain urge and are presented with the opportunity to satisfy that desire, you are more likely to do it than someone in a less opportune position. [disclaimer]Obviously, wanting supermodels =! paedophilia. Duh.[/disclaimer]

-Arrian

[:) Smiley]

It was banned for many different reasons... Many historians say the most important reason was based in the middle ages, where the second son was always sent to the priesthood to avoid any problems with the inheritance of the first son and his family. By making it against the rules for them to inherite land, and not allowing them to get married and have "legal" children, the first sons rights were protected. This whole "so they can dedicate their minds and body to god" stuff is just a bunch of after the fact crap

In the end, the blame is always on The Man.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by DanS
Another archdiocese bites the dust. Portland just went bankrupt.

I hear they are setting up catacombs

[Ben Kenobi]

Non-catholics don't seem to understand this.

JCC:

High praise indeed.

[Ben Kenobi]

In Prot denoms their has rarely been any attempt to shield priests or pastors from consequences of criminal wrongdoing.

Yeah, but ordination works differently. In the Catholic church, one cannot defrock a priest. That's the biggest reason for the treatment and relocation rather than expulsion.