Why were there so many sexual abuse problems in the RCC?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


You sure about this?

Sacrament of ordination cannot be undone. You're a priest for life.

So what happens to the ones who get married? I'm pretty sure that if you violate your vows you get kicked out.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


So what happens to the ones who get married? I'm pretty sure that if you violate your vows you get kicked out.

Pope Kenobi may not be infallible:

"VATICAN CITY -- American Roman Catholic church leaders said Wednesday they will recommend a special process to defrock any priest who has become "notorious and is guilty of the serial, predatory sexual abuse of minors." "

http://www.detnews.com/2002/religion/0204/26/religion-473513.htm

From a large selection:

http://www.detnews.com/2002/religion/0204/26/

To me it's not simply the child sexual abuse that is the problem, even though I find it hard it understand anyone taking advantage of a position of such trust and authority, but it is the concerted effort by a part of the Catholic Church's hierarchy to let paedophile priests escape justice by knowingly moving them away from parishes where they have routinely abused children to other parishes where they can carry on the serial molestation of young people.

The church also failed the dead and traumatized of Africa by shielding people wanted in connection with crimes against humanity:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/tribunals/2001/0716rwnd.htm

"Court officials say the Catholic Church, which until now had been shielding priests and nuns accused of wrongdoing in Rwanda, has begun to cooperate with the tribunal. "

http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/tribunals/rwanda/2002/0512faith.htm

[Agathon]

If things continue like this, they're going to have to sell the Vatican to pay for the lawsuits.

And I bet Donald Trump will buy it and turn it into an hotel.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


You sure about this?

Sacrament of ordination cannot be undone. You're a priest for life.

priesthood is for life but priests are frequently "defrocked" in the sense of removed from ministry or retired.

The main causes for this include illness or incapacitation but disciplinary reasons or scandal are other grounds.

Priests who left the ministry to get married would form a large group.

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Do you have any evidence I'm not watching you at this very moment?

How many fingers am I holding infront of the screen.... and which one is it



let me add that it should be understood as joke

[Mr. Harley]

Ming, excellent historical perspective. As one addition, there were Catholic rites that permitted marraige. I knew a woman whose parents, who were from Poland, and who talked about a Polish rite where priests were permitted to marry (back when I wanted to become a Jesuit). However, as the Catholic Church has centralized and become more Roman Catholic, that kind of diversity has been drastically curtailed.

DanS and BK have done a very good analysis of the scriptural and theological basis that is current today and led to the serial reassignment of pedophile priests. If they confessed and said they were sorry, then they were reassigned and given a fresh start. When you look at some of these cases, it worked. They only have one complaint. When it was a serial abuser it was a new hunting ground.

NPR had a fascinating interview when all this started, with an insurance agent who specializes in selling liablity insurance to religious groups. His statement was that Protestant ministers were just as big a risk as Catholic Priests. However, the congregation routinely draws together in support of the minister, and labels the girls involved Jezebels. Lawyers understand that an abused boy (as in homosexual abuse) results in larger damage claims. As always, follow the money.

[Alexander's Horse]

One issue this has brought up is whether priests should be allowed to marry and the possible rehabilitation of married priests and seminarians, who currently suffer a kind of pariah status as far as the clergy are concerned.

The people in the pews don't see it like that though

[Heresson]

I don't think there's that much abuse. RCC is HUGE, so the number of abuses is big too

[DanS]

From what I have seen, there really was that much abuse, unfortunately. The RCC let it fester and didn't deal with it effectively.

[Urban Ranger]

I don't know if this has been answered.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Presumes that such an urge is 'basic'.

I'm not so sure this is the case. I grant that celibacy is not for everyone, which is why people who burn are encouraged to marry.

Reproductive urge is as basic as eating, drinking, sleeping, and taking a dump.

Males of a great many species of animals fight each other for a chance to reproduce. In the process they often get injured, maimed, and even killed. For those species that don't males still compete with each other vigorously for females through a variety of means, e.g. showing off plumage or singing in contest.

[Ben Kenobi]

Apocalypse:

They can say the sacrament was never there pretty easily though.

Ordination is a public ceremony, so no. They can't really say that the sacrament was invalidly conferred, when done properly.

[Ben Kenobi]

Dont know about overall numbers, but non-celibacy doesnt guarantee anything. Humans are all too human.

Yep. Just because you changed that policy would not mean that you can just let anyone be a pastor or a priest. You would still need the same controls to protect the parishioners.

[Ben Kenobi]

So what happens to the ones who get married? I'm pretty sure that if you violate your vows you get kicked out.

Most of them resign their position and leave. Why fight for marriage, when you can join a different church?

[Ben Kenobi]

Pope Kenobi may not be infallible:

Considering that I don't accept papal infalliability, that would be odd if I accepted such a burden here.

Thanks for the article molly, but be aware that this would have to be a special process, and causes problems elsewhere for Catholics.

To me it's not simply the child sexual abuse that is the problem, even though I find it hard it understand anyone taking advantage of a position of such trust and authority, but it is the concerted effort by a part of the Catholic Church's hierarchy to let paedophile priests escape justice by knowingly moving them away from parishes where they have routinely abused children to other parishes where they can carry on the serial molestation of young people.

What would you do with them? Kick them out? Again, we get back to the sacrament validly conferred cannot be removed. They can take the priest and put him away from children, but he's still a priest for life.

The church also failed the dead and traumatized of Africa by shielding people wanted in connection with crimes against humanity:

"Court officials say the Catholic Church, which until now had been shielding priests and nuns accused of wrongdoing in Rwanda, has begun to cooperate with the tribunal. "

So would they be arrested for their conduct? How would they serve their sentence?

Part of the problem is that the church fears that to acknowledge such a tribunal, establishes the authority of the tribunal over that of the church.

It's not entirely clear that this should be so, especially considering that the nuns and priests are accused of wrongdoing, and have not been proved to do have committed the acts.

Sure, if you can show that the priests and nuns actually killed people, and participated in the massacre, that would be one thing, but they still have a responsibility to their parish and their parishioners regardless of what is going on.

If they are accused of collaborating with those who committed genocide, that is a much stickier wicket.

[Ben Kenobi]

Reproductive urge is as basic as eating, drinking, sleeping, and taking a dump.

Does everyone have children? No. Will you die, if you do not have children? No. Therefore, the reproductive urge is not as basic as the other physiological needs cited.

Males of a great many species of animals fight each other for a chance to reproduce.

But do all the males reproduce? Many do just fine, even if they are not the alpha male.