Why were there so many sexual abuse problems in the RCC?

[Ben Kenobi]

Yet, despite arguments from some of the bishops present, the Council said that it was not a law that came from God but a Church tradition that could be changed.

Very true. This is the most important thing to remember.

However, the defence of celibacy goes back all the way to Scripture, in that celibacy allows one to devote oneself fully to God.

So, while you cite a historical example of how the practice became tradition, the justification stems from this.

Funny, you're the Catholic, Ming, so why am I defending your church?

[Alexander's Horse]

I really doubt they will ever get away from the culture of cover up. It's a natural bureaucratic or institutional reaction to scandal, be it in a church or anywhere else.

One measure that has been taken here by some churches and church-run institutions is that any allegation of serious sexual misconduct will automatically be referred to the police for investigation rather than investigated internally first. That should help.

It also means that if a case is not referred, then whoever decided not to is in trouble as much as the alleged perp. It's not a bad approach.

[Straybow]

Yeah, but ordination works differently. In the Catholic church, one cannot defrock a priest. That's the biggest reason for the treatment and relocation rather than expulsion.

If "relocation" meant moving the offender to an administrative type position away from public contact, and "treatment" meant something more than confession and absolution, you'd have half a point.

If the RCC forgot to make an allowance to defrock for criminal offenses, that's an ex-cathedra error of the highest order. Then again, in the middle ages they tended to execute ("purify by trial") criminals so they didn't have to defrock them.

[Alexander's Horse]

Er, the catholic church can "defrock" priests. Happens all the time.

[Straybow]

However, the defence of celibacy goes back all the way to Scripture, in that celibacy allows one to devote oneself fully to God.

Actually, the passage in Corinthians is introduced with a temporal condition: "…because of the current distress…" ie, persecution.

[Alexander's Horse]

celibacy was optional, like giving up cheese sandwiches for God.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I really doubt they will ever get away from the culture of cover up. It's a natural bureaucratic or institutional reaction to scandal, be it in a church or anywhere else.

The 'send them to Samoa' response:

"The move comes after Archbishop Mataeliga demanded an explanation yesterday from the missionary Salesian Order, which moved Klep to Samoa after he was convicted of molesting a boy in Victoria. "

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9935446%255E401,00.html

'Abuser 'not moved to avoid police'


Former Australian Salesian Provincial Fr John Murphy yesterday denied a priest convicted of child abuse had been moved to Samoa to escape Victoria Police who were pursuing him on further child abuse charges.

The Age today reports that Fr Murphy, who now heads the Order in Samoa, said he had made the decision to send the priest, Frank Klep, to Samoa only when he thought Victorian police were no longer interested in him.

"It was not an attempt to hide him," said Fr Murphy who headed the Salesians in Australia and the Pacific from 1994 to 1998.

He also accepted responsibility for signing, in good faith, a declaration that Klep was of good character and had not been convicted of any criminal charges, even though this was not the case. This enabled Klep to get a visa to live in Samoa.'

http://www.cathnews.com/news/407/3.php

[Alexander's Horse]

Yep - It's going to keep happening I'm afraid.

[OzzyKP]

One thing to keep in mind, is that the vast majority of abuser priests were ordained in the 60's & 70's. New priests account for like less than 5% of the abuse cases. Much of the abuse was earlier too.

So its definitely a sign things are getting better, its just that everything is coming to light now.

[OzzyKP]

Also, back in the day when homosexuality, and other alternative lifestyles weren't as accepted by society, many choose priesthood as an escape. Nowadays, its more normal, so they live more normal lives, with an outlet for their urges.

[Ben Kenobi]

Er, the catholic church can "defrock" priests. Happens all the time.

You sure about this?

Sacrament of ordination cannot be undone. You're a priest for life.

[Ben Kenobi]

Also, back in the day when homosexuality, and other alternative lifestyles weren't as accepted by society, many choose priesthood as an escape. Nowadays, its more normal, so they live more normal lives, with an outlet for their urges.

I thought homosexuals hated to be called pedophiles, yet I don't see any of their defenders here in the thread.

Just because they are pedophiles does not mean that they are homosexual.

I would think that because the church is becoming better at scrutinising, that they discourage people who otherwise would not have been detected.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


You sure about this?

Sacrament of ordination cannot be undone. You're a priest for life.

They can say the sacrament was never there pretty easily though.

[lord of the mark]

in defense of the RCC:

I know of at least one tremendously embarrassing case of a pedophile rabbi - he just happened to be the youth director for the largest Orthodox synagogue organization (Union of Orthodox Congregations) in the US. There was also a scandal about a coverup, and as a result the synagogue of that orgs VP ended up leaving that org - it was quite traumatic.


Dont know about overall numbers, but non-celibacy doesnt guarantee anything. Humans are all too human.

[lord of the mark]

"The Council of Elvira in Spain (about 306 A.D.) forbade all bishops, priests and deacons from having wives. This practice then began to apply to the whole of the Western Church through various Papal decrees from Pope Damasus I onwards. Damasus regarded sexual intercourse as 'defilement' (a legal impurity rather than a sin, along the lines of the Old Testament Jewish laws - see Leviticus 15:18)."


A side note - its now often argued that the Hebrew word Tamai shouldnt be translated as impure - Jewish laws of what you can do and touch when are more complex than that, and dont (arguably) have the derogatoray sense.