Rugby - Truck and Trailer!

[finbar]

The Andrew Johns saga gets sillier. I heard this morning that the 9 network (who hold the free-to-air L***** rights), News Limited (who hold the pay L***** rights), and Newcastle (his current L***** club) are meeting to try to work out how to keep him in L*****. Presumably that means putting together a bigger fiscal bait than the "Friends of the Waratahs" have offered.

[Havak]

Narky? Nothing of the sort – after all I’m not the one who suggested someone else might have trouble working a VCR.

All that effort and I just read it and laughed. Why the need to get so personal I wonder? Although I suppose ‘Bollocks’, ‘rubbish’ and ‘liar’ are just subjective descriptive words really? I would never accuse you of being a liar by the way Caligastia – I think you say it as you see it – I just happen to disagree.

Look I’m not going to extend the discussion or besmirch the ABs anymore because other posters support them too and it wouldn’t be fair for me to upset them by arguing with you over something neither of us will ever change view on.

I will say I think the ABs get carried away everytime they win big at home – but world cups are not played in NZ anymore so they shouldn’t do so until they are winning big away from home close to world cup time. Oh hold on – they were doing that last year!!

And the image - that was funny. But the parody was very lame. Whoever wrote it must try harder.

Super Tim ‘the Tiger’ Henman won 3-1 of course after dropping that first set to a grass court ‘virgin’ – and yes he is the British number one so Celts may follow him if they wish. I find him very amusing when he talks of winning the tournament – almost like he is trying to convince himself really.

I could be really tempted to move to Italy in a way Finbar – except of course that the ABs are due to tour there in November. You know me - I’d only go and upset people again by pointing out things like the fact there are nearly as many native born Kiwis in the Italian side as in the ABs.

So you think I indulge in pre-emptive excuses – did you catch Clive’s press conference yesterday?

"We've had a lot of retirements, a lot of injuries and we're at the end of a long season. We're rebuilding now, the World Cup is all history, and hopefully we'll put out a strong side with some of those injuries we've picked up over the weekend - but it will be a great Test match this weekend. Australia won't have a better chance of beating England for a long, long time. This is their chance, see if they can take it or not. Probably Eddie Jones has never had a better chance of beating England - he hasn't succeeded yet. They'll be up for the game on Saturday night - but I am convinced England can win if we get up for one last game."

Clive really needs to think more about what he says when in Australia. The bit about Eddie Jones is actually a joke – it was said extremely light heartedly and off the cuff – but it will be seized upon by the Aussie media machine and used to crucify him for his arrogance. I’m not blanket defending him here – a lot of what Finbar accuses him of is spot on – but sometimes he gets a raw deal from the media, and particularly the Aussie media who at times report Englishmen the same way the Gestapo reported on the French resistance.

The other interesting thing is his revisionist stuff. Before the first Kiwi test there was no mention of ‘rebuilding’ or a ‘long season’. He talked of fielding the strongest side he ever has (and that was truly a silly thing to say as it was patently false for the girlies).


And then he is convinced England can win. Well yes in any game with two sides either can win. But not both. I doubt the Aussies have been such clear bookies favourites in years?

Of course our squad has not been named because of all the injuries. But I’ll bet with you now he names Borthwick-Shaw instead of having the courage to bring in Corry. I think that’s a mistake as it looks like Eddie has Harrison-Sharpe in the second row with a powerful back line of Lyons at 8 and Samo at blindside – is that right Finbar?

Our best hope is that any side that has Dunning on the bench has to be vulnerable in the scrum?

And can I assume that Finbar made a phone call to let certain people know that Jonno was driving to Kings Country for a players reunion on Tuesday?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
And the image - that was funny. But the parody was very lame. Whoever wrote it must try harder.

Thank God I didn't think of it.

I could be really tempted to move to Italy in a way Finbar – except of course that the ABs are due to tour there in November. You know me - I’d only go and upset people again by pointing out things like the fact there are nearly as many native born Kiwis in the Italian side as in the ABs.

Yes, but the difference is no one would understand you. Oh, and unless you lived in the north, they'd bounce a s***** ball off your noggin and accuse you of being party to the Scandinavian conspiracy to oust them from the Euro-whatever-it-is-thing. Actually, that's the only thing that probably keeps me from moving there. Mrs finbar - who doesn't want to leave her bloody daughter behind! - and funds aside.

So you think I indulge in pre-emptive excuses – did you catch Clive’s press conference yesterday?

Yes, I saw it. He's right on all counts. It'll be a great match, regardless. They always are. And if the Wallabies can't beat them on Saturday, they never will.

I’m not blanket defending him here – a lot of what Finbar accuses him of is spot on – but sometimes he gets a raw deal from the media, and particularly the Aussie media who at times report Englishmen the same way the Gestapo reported on the French resistance.

His problem is that he can be his own worst enemy. I'm never even sure if it's pure stream of consciousness stuff or there's anything planned about it.

The other interesting thing is his revisionist stuff. Before the first Kiwi test there was no mention of ‘rebuilding’ or a ‘long season’. He talked of fielding the strongest side he ever has (and that was truly a silly thing to say as it was patently false for the girlies).

I'm sure his ego - and even his genuine belief in his players - wouldn't have let him talk negatively prior to the first match. The problem is, as you point out, it doesn't leave anywhere else to go. Except sound like excuses are suddenly being made. Who would be a coach these days anyway?

I doubt the Aussies have been such clear bookies favourites in years?

I wouldn't put my money on them. I know they have a history of lifting - look at the World Cup - but I don't trust the bastards.

Of course our squad has not been named because of all the injuries. But I’ll bet with you now he names Borthwick-Shaw instead of having the courage to bring in Corry. I think that’s a mistake as it looks like Eddie has Harrison-Sharpe in the second row with a powerful back line of Lyons at 8 and Samo at blindside – is that right Finbar?

Harrison, Sharpe, Waugh, Samo and Lyons. With Vickerman and George Smith to join in. A bit of speed, strength and muscle in that lot.

Our best hope is that any side that has Dunning on the bench has to be vulnerable in the scrum?

Your best hope is to put the ball behind that lump who remains on the opposite wing to Tuquiri. Just watch the queue of Wallabies lining up to clean up for him.

And can I assume that Finbar made a phone call to let certain people know that Jonno was driving to Kings Country for a players reunion on Tuesday?

I certainly did. Gave them his route, told them to take an especially strong front bumper bar with them. They did. And still came away with a lantern-shaped dent in it!

[Havak]

I’m confused – is it the soccer, the conspiracy or the Euro that is the other factor preventing the move?

For what it is worth I don’t think there is anything pre-meditated about what Clive says – I firmly believe it is stream of consciousness stuff.

The problem is, as you point out, it doesn't leave anywhere else to go. Except sound like excuses are suddenly being made. Who would be a coach these days anyway?

Not me that’s for sure.

I must also admit I am worried how he will talk ahead of the autumn games too. Assuming the Smiths, Robinsons, Moodys and Wilkos of this world can be fit and ready by then I can see more “strongest team I have ever fielded” nonsense. I would like to see him use the rebuilding expression for a while – should be good for 12 months of excuses?

I wouldn't put my money on them. I know they have a history of lifting - look at the World Cup - but I don't trust the bastards.

It’s England. On the ropes. With additional injuries to boot. I know what you are saying but if they cannot lift for this what on earth could they lift for?

Harrison, Sharpe, Waugh, Samo and Lyons. With Vickerman and George Smith to join in. A bit of speed, strength and muscle in that lot.

Especially that back row. Hmm. Bet Clive gets that wrong too – I predict Hill-Dallaglio-Worseley and I wouldn’t be surprised if he sticks Jones on the bench instead of Lipman. Hill against McCaw was a mismatch of willingness versus skill – what makes Clive think he can live at openside with Bulldog or George either?

Mind you playing Lipman against guys like that would be fun too.

Your best hope is to put the ball behind that lump who remains on the opposite wing to Tuquiri

You know I wouldn’t trust the first up tackler from the girlies to stop him with this team! And he scored perhaps his best try ever against us last year? Well with the possible exception of that Gimme against Scotland?

They did. And still came away with a lantern-shaped dent in it!

And in traditional style he got annoyed when asked about it by the press. Me guv? I’m innocent.

*edit* I see Eddie rose to the bait then?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I’m confused – is it the soccer, the conspiracy or the Euro that is the other factor preventing the move?

S*****! I've been there so many times and every radio and every television in every street in every town is blaring it! On Saturdays, on one of the TV channels, they have about an 8 hour variety show which incorporates crosses to the various matches! The variety shows, typically, are co-hosted by a short, balding bloke of about 60 and a 20 year old 6'2" blonde with massive knockers. Bizarre. Every Italian TV variety show features the same co-host set up. Only the names and faces change.

Not me that’s for sure.

Modern - professional - rugby has not been a blessing for players or coaches, I think. Remuneration aside.

I must also admit I am worried how he will talk ahead of the autumn games too. Assuming the Smiths, Robinsons, Moodys and Wilkos of this world can be fit and ready by then I can see more “strongest team I have ever fielded” nonsense. I would like to see him use the rebuilding expression for a while – should be good for 12 months of excuses?

What's wrong with a simple "we're as ready as we can be"? That's basically all Eddie ever says about the team.

It’s England. On the ropes. With additional injuries to boot. I know what you are saying but if they cannot lift for this what on earth could they lift for?

I agree. Having Giteau and Mortlock together in the centres is a massive improvement on last week. Turinui and Mortlock didn't have a clue what the other was up to. Why not? They might have played together once in their lives. Look, I think we'll win, only because we should. But I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if we didn't.

Especially that back row. Hmm. Bet Clive gets that wrong too – I predict Hill-Dallaglio-Worseley and I wouldn’t be surprised if he sticks Jones on the bench instead of Lipman. Hill against McCaw was a mismatch of willingness versus skill – what makes Clive think he can live at openside with Bulldog or George either?

No, I can see Hill having problems with Waugh, in particular. The speed and workrate could be a problem. Good luck to whomever takes on Samo. A 17 stone praying mantis on amphetamines. His inexperience has to bring him unstuck at some stage, but I'm keen to see how he handles the higher level.

Mind you playing Lipman against guys like that would be fun too.

I fully expect him to forget himself and charge for the wrong tryline.

You know I wouldn’t trust the first up tackler from the girlies to stop him with this team!

Oh, there are very few first tacklers who can bring him down if he has some momentum. One of the bonuses is that he usually locks up a couple of defenders. It's what he doesn't do well elsewhere that's the problem. I just can't see the point of playing him. It's highly unlikely he'll be around for the next World Cup, and these are the sorts of games where Rathbone and Gerard should be getting experience.

And in traditional style he got annoyed when asked about it by the press. Me guv? I’m innocent.

Sounds like he was very very lucky. I've no doubt Stu Dickinson waved him past on a blind corner.

*edit* I see Eddie rose to the bait then?

I'd better go and have a look what he's said since I saw him interviewed today. All he said was the usual - we expect a very physical game but we hope our skills see us through.

[finbar]

And now Mark Gerard is out of the team. Re-tweaked his hammy!

Discovered this morning that Michael Lipman is an old Joeys' boy. St Josephs, here in Sydney, is one of the great public school rugby nurseries. A mate of mine went there. The Pope comes a poor second to rugby at Joeys, which, obviously, is as it should be.

EDIT. Just stumbled across this. Dan Luger's tips on everything except how not to show you're sh*tting yourself on the rugby field!

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Narky? Nothing of the sort – after all I’m not the one who suggested someone else might have trouble working a VCR.

Hey, I know you can work one I just don't know if you have the tape or not.

All that effort and I just read it and laughed. Why the need to get so personal I wonder? Although I suppose ‘Bollocks’, ‘rubbish’ and ‘liar’ are just subjective descriptive words really? I would never accuse you of being a liar by the way Caligastia – I think you say it as you see it – I just happen to disagree.

I really wasn't calling you a liar (and never would), just suggesting that your imagination had filled in a few blanks. I guess I just got a bit carried away with my argument. Sorry about that. I never thought you were lying, just perhaps depending on your memory too much. I would like to know though...did you get a chance to review a tape of the game?

Look I’m not going to extend the discussion or besmirch the ABs anymore because other posters support them too and it wouldn’t be fair for me to upset them by arguing with you over something neither of us will ever change view on.

Very true.


No hard feelings mate. I was in the wrong...got too into the argument...sorry.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Havak
I will say I think the ABs get carried away everytime they win big at home – but world cups are not played in NZ anymore

Who us??!!
I really don't know how you come up with some of these wild and crazy suggestions - I do like the implication of the second part though - World cups should indeed be played in NZ.
Oh? I seem to have missed the rest of your quote somehow - Nevermind, probably wasn't important anyway ...

Clive really needs to think more about what he says when in Australia. The bit about Eddie Jones is actually a joke – it was said extremely light heartedly and off the cuff – but it will be seized upon by the Aussie media machine and used to crucify him for his arrogance.

Cive's been around for long enough that he had to know in advance how that would be taken - yet he went and did it regardless.
Sometimes media-baiting can be a useful tactic but I'm not so sure in this case.
Maybe Clive knows something everybody else doesn't?

I doubt the Aussies have been such clear bookies favourites in years?

I wouldn't write England off just yet - they're playing in Queensland after all and you know how the Waratahs players do up there.

Originally posted by finbar
And now Mark Gerard is out of the team. Re-tweaked his hammy!

Jeremy Paul looks to be in doubt too. Some sort of a knee strain.

Off on another tack - The Italian fans can gripe all they wish but there was no way that Denmark-Sweden game was staged. A fabulous game to watch.

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon

Off on another tack - The Italian fans can gripe all they wish but there was no way that Denmark-Sweden game was staged. A fabulous game to watch.

Right! That's it! Red card for you! The only knowledge of s***** allowed to be gleaned by contributors to these threads is via something accidentally overheard while watching or listening to a sports round up, waiting for rugby news, and justifiable only if you can prove there was some impediment to shutting your eyes and/or sticking your fingers in your ears!

Oh, and yes. JP is in doubt. Adam Frier is on standby.

[finbar]

Hey Havak. Who's Mark Van Gisbergen? I found a few people singing his praises on one of the rugby forums.

[Havak]

Caligastia don’t sweat it – I avoided extending an argument I didn’t want to have.

Now I have had a lot of humble pie to digest recently so why not a little more – on careful and non-adrenalin fuelled re-viewing of the first ten minutes Carlos is off the hook as it was indeed a shove and a small tussle before he was speared by Dally (in a move worthy of the WWE?). Robinson is trickier – he had fists formed during the square up but it does indeed seem it was a flat hand push in the face on Joe.

Of course I can’t digest all that without some comeback – given that neither man was the ball carrier and that the contact was definitely not accidental it is still illegal and possibly could still have warranted a yellow.

The great thing is only having had time to review ten minutes worth I can’t comment on the off the ball tackling still.

And if England are the side with discipline problems I don’t understand this statistic from the second test – penalties conceded England Four, NZ Sixteen. Actually I can answer that for you perhaps – Welsh referee?

My anger over the week has transferred mainly to our players as it happens.

Every Italian TV variety show features the same co-host set up. Only the names and faces change.

I thought it was the law in Italy that all programs be presented by at least one busty blond (clothing optional?).

Modern - professional - rugby has not been a blessing for players or coaches, I think. Remuneration aside.

Witness the new deal between our Player Union and the RFU to cap Representative players (EPS – 60 Elite Players Squad) at 32 games per year and set fixed summer breaks and rest periods. All the agreements have a caveat that the RFU can overrule the agreement to make sure all fixtures are ‘competitive’. So in reality not worth the paper it is written on.

What's wrong with a simple "we're as ready as we can be"? That's basically all Eddie ever says about the team.

Simplicity is alien to Sir Clive I think.

Look, I think we'll win, only because we should. But I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if we didn't.

Well the squad is out and I’m more nervous than ever – more on that later.

It's highly unlikely he'll be around for the next World Cup, and these are the sorts of games where Rathbone and Gerard should be getting experience.

And that’s a little sad – as the World Champions visiting should be the ultimate test. But this team aint all that – only five survivors from November in the starting XV.

Sounds like he was very very lucky. I've no doubt Stu Dickinson waved him past on a blind corner.

I dread to think of the conspiracy theories if he had bought the farm in Kiwiland!

All he said was the usual - we expect a very physical game but we hope our skills see us through.

Also – “they were not tired last June – why are they tired now?”

Oh god where did you find that Luger link – he is rugby’s forgotten man now. Whereas I’m pleased to see Lipman is the Aussie equivalent of a blue blood (does he wipe the rim of the can with his sleeve before drinking?).

I do like the implication of the second part though - World cups should indeed be played in NZ.

The problem is Ravagon I can’t see it happening. World cups are now massive draws and need a tourist infrastructure of some size to handle it – does NZ have this? I understand the Lions tour organisers had real problems finding enough accommodation for next year.

Sometimes media-baiting can be a useful tactic but I'm not so sure in this case.
Maybe Clive knows something everybody else doesn't?

He knows he has a contract to 2007 and has to be paid off regardless.

I wouldn't write England off just yet - they're playing in Queensland after all and you know how the Waratahs players do up there.

Queensland is not a happy hunting ground for under strength English sides. Oh we could win – but the Aussies will have to give it to us.

We can’t talk S*****? Not even to say Bye Italy, Bye Germany? And after tonight Bye England?

Gerard and Paul possibly out? Someone nobble Gregan and Mortlock and I’ll be happier…

Mark Van Gisbergen is a 26 year old Kiwi, refused a contract by Chiefs a few years ago and playing for Wasps ever since. Plays fullback and fly half. Qualifies for England in September 2005. Solid enough player and had done well for Wasps – but not sure if he can take the step up.

The squad:
England: J Lewsey; T Voyce, M Catt, M Tindall, B Cohen; C Hodgson, A Gomarsall; T Payne, M Regan, J White, S Shaw, S Borthwick, J Worsley, R Hill, L Dallaglio (captain).
Replacements: S Thompson, W Green or M Worsley, M Corry, M Lipman, M Dawson, F Waters, O Barkley.

What can I say – a debutant prop in Tim Payne, the Borthwick-Shaw combo I feared, Lardy on the bench…

The positive – Corry. If Samo starts bullocking over Worseley and Hill Martin will enter the fray – and is fully capable of stopping such a big man too.

*edit* More classic Eddie here from the BBC site:

referees "often get it wrong", teams should "accept refereeing as it is".

"I used to be critical when I was younger, when I still had hair," said the bald Jones.

"But as coaches and officials, we should have a strong commitment to uphold the traditions of the game."

So is Eddie saying he will never criticise an official post-match again?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Now I have had a lot of humble pie to digest recently so why not a little more – on careful and non-adrenalin fuelled re-viewing of the first ten minutes Carlos is off the hook as it was indeed a shove and a small tussle before he was speared by Dally (in a move worthy of the WWE?). Robinson is trickier – he had fists formed during the square up but it does indeed seem it was a flat hand push in the face on Joe.

Of course I can’t digest all that without some comeback – given that neither man was the ball carrier and that the contact was definitely not accidental it is still illegal and possibly could still have warranted a yellow.

Well, I don't think pushing and shoving has ever warranted a yellow card in these kinds of situations. And it's not like the England players were doing nothing at the time.

The great thing is only having had time to review ten minutes worth I can’t comment on the off the ball tackling still.

Where were the commentators from in the version you watched? England I presume? I had NZ commentators who (naturally ) were helpful enough to point out most of the instances of off the ball tackling.

And if England are the side with discipline problems I don’t understand this statistic from the second test – penalties conceded England Four, NZ Sixteen. Actually I can answer that for you perhaps – Welsh referee?

I guess there's discipline problems and there's discipline problems. I was referring more to the biffo related problems.

My anger over the week has transferred mainly to our players as it happens.

So the Wallabies are back at the bottom of your list of teams you'd like to see win?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Of course I can’t digest all that without some comeback – given that neither man was the ball carrier and that the contact was definitely not accidental it is still illegal and possibly could still have warranted a yellow.

Nuh. Usually something from the ref like: "Grow up". The knees situation overtook procedings anyway.

And if England are the side with discipline problems I don’t understand this statistic from the second test – penalties conceded England Four, NZ Sixteen. Actually I can answer that for you perhaps – Welsh referee?

It was odd. As I recall, the AB penalties were all there, offside and a lot of ruck infringements. I don't know why he missed England infringements which were certainly there. As you say, a Richard Burton.

I thought it was the law in Italy that all programs be presented by at least one busty blond (clothing optional?).

Less (clothing) as you move up the body. But, yes, she is mandatory. What I can't fathom is why the co-host is always a balding 60 year old male. I'm not exaggerating.

Witness the new deal between our Player Union and the RFU to cap Representative players (EPS – 60 Elite Players Squad) at 32 games per year and set fixed summer breaks and rest periods. All the agreements have a caveat that the RFU can overrule the agreement to make sure all fixtures are ‘competitive’. So in reality not worth the paper it is written on.

As I asked when I first posted this - how will they fit the league, HC, 6 Nations and Tests into 32 games? How many league matches are there outside of HC and internationals? 32's about the same as our limit, and we always have players close to the mark with nowhere near as much rugby. I wasn't aware of the caveat, but I'd've thought it would have to be exercised holus bolus.

Also – “they were not tired last June – why are they tired now?”

Yes, I caught up with that. I also liked one of his lines when talking about this pre-match hoo-ha between coaches: "It's a bit of fun". It's got to the point where I don't take much notice anymore.

Oh god where did you find that Luger link – he is rugby’s forgotten man

I stumbled across it and couldn't believe my luck. I think it's Planet Rugby. I assume he gets paid for it. What a waste.

Whereas I’m pleased to see Lipman is the Aussie equivalent of a blue blood (does he wipe the rim of the can with his sleeve before drinking?).

Um. Joeys just about exists for rugby. They're always at or near the top of the schools comp. They award rugby scholarships. They will take any kid who can play. Lipman could be a reincarnation of one of the Kray Twins for all Joeys would have cared.

The problem is Ravagon I can’t see it happening. World cups are now massive draws and need a tourist infrastructure of some size to handle it – does NZ have this? I understand the Lions tour organisers had real problems finding enough accommodation for next year.

I'm sure John O'Neill - now heading up Australian s***** - will have a word to his ARU replacement, Mr Flowers. Expect the Kiwi-Lions series to be transferred to Australia.

We can’t talk S*****? Not even to say Bye Italy, Bye Germany? And after tonight Bye England?

No! Not even for those reasons!

Gerard and Paul possibly out? Someone nobble Gregan and Mortlock and I’ll be happier…

Gerard definitely out, Paul more than likely from what I saw of him on TV at training. Mortlock isn't yet match fit after his injury time off, so, barring necessity, he won't play the whole game. He didn't last week.

Mark Van Gisbergen is a 26 year old Kiwi, refused a contract by Chiefs a few years ago and playing for Wasps ever since. Plays fullback and fly half. Qualifies for England in September 2005. Solid enough player and had done well for Wasps – but not sure if he can take the step up.

Oh well, a couple of people seemed to think he was the answer to a few positions.

What can I say – a debutant prop in Tim Payne,

That helps us.

Lardy on the bench…

What did you think of Regan last week? I thought he contributed more than Fatty did the week before.

The positive – Corry. If Samo starts bullocking over Worseley and Hill Martin will enter the fray – and is fully capable of stopping such a big man too.

But can he stop Samo and Lyons together? They started working in tandem last week. A frightening sight.

So is Eddie saying he will never criticise an official post-match again?

Yes, until he does.

[Havak]

And it's not like the England players were doing nothing at the time.

Valiantly defending themselves from those naughty nasty ABs?

Where were the commentators from in the version you watched? England I presume?

Yep – we are lucky enough to have overdub from Harrison and Barnes – a latter day Laurel and Hardy. We sometimes get the native commentary – in the tri-nations for example, and bizarrely sometimes in the highlights too. And of course when the overdub messes up too. There is a difference in it – the different guys concentrate on different things. Then again whilst the word ‘harsh’ was used for Shaw so was the word ‘Stupid’ and even the word ‘unnecessary’.

I was referring more to the biffo related problems.

That’s a cultural difference again. Biffo is moderately acceptable to most Brits if it’s not stupidly dangerous stuff (like knees in backs!) as long as the penalty is not conceded.

So the Wallabies are back at the bottom of your list of teams you'd like to see win?

On Saturday yes.

The rest of the time they are fighting with Wales for that honour.

The knees situation overtook procedings anyway.

Well it kind of overtook everything. I am pleased looking back at the thread that Dickinson is not everyone’s favourite official.

I don't know why he missed England infringements which were certainly there.

We can hardly be accused of having paid him off.

What I can't fathom is why the co-host is always a balding 60 year old male. I'm not exaggerating.

If aiming for a young audience he represents no threat to their fantasies when watching maybe?

As I asked when I first posted this - how will they fit the league, HC, 6 Nations and Tests into 32 games?

Did I miss the post? Sorry! The simple answer is they will not. There are 22 league games a year (plus 1 or 2 if you make the play offs), 6 Heineken pool matches (plus 3 elimination rounds if you progress), a possible 4 domestic cup games and 10 tests a year. A potential 47 games for an England player whose club is doing well. So in effect clubs have agreed to rest these Elite players – which means some ‘soft’ fixtures (Italian sides, early cup rounds, league games against Worcester, Saracens and Bath) will hardly be worth watching.

Bath may have been a joke there.

It's got to the point where I don't take much notice anymore.

You will notice Eddie has not wound me up for a while either. I think they secretly like each other you know.

Now that was definitely a joke!

Lipman could be a reincarnation of one of the Kray Twins for all Joeys would have cared.

My big question is does this mean he is good? I paid little attention to Bath last year except when we played them – and he was fairly quiet in both games IIRC.

Expect the Kiwi-Lions series to be transferred to Australia.

Best not to even joke about it – stranger things have happened!

It’s Catt-Tindall in the middle again – clearly looking for that RWC ‘magic’. Mortlock will not need a full game against them if they play like the first NZ test.

The people you are listening to may know more about Van Gisbergen. I can only go from what I saw and he was the fully when we whacked Wasps at their place I think – it wasn’t impressive.

I was unfair to Regan – his performance last week was perhaps his best. Normally his discipline lets him down. Less so this time (more competition you might claim?)

But can he stop Samo and Lyons together? They started working in tandem last week. A frightening sight.

Nope he can’t – he is strong but there are limits. He can combine with Dallaglio to form a powerful combo of our own though. Very unlucky lad Corry – a three times Lions test starter at 6 he has always suffered under Clive who loves mobile nonces like Jones and Worseley rather than hard charging brick outhouses like Cozza. Not that Cozza is a slouch - in fact the way Clive has not used him defeats me (especially after he played Jones)

Yes, until he does.

He is good value these days. As you say he takes little seriously in the pre-match.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Did I miss the post? Sorry!

You were immersed in your funk at the time.

So in effect clubs have agreed to rest these Elite players – which means some ‘soft’ fixtures (Italian sides, early cup rounds, league games against Worcester, Saracens ) will hardly be worth watching.

Bath may have been a joke there.

In case it went over people's heads, I edited your sentence for you. So players will be rested. Makes sense. But it's still capable of amounting to quite a few rests for top players in top teams. I suppose that's where the caveat comes into play. Leicester, of course, will be unaffected.

My big question is does this mean he is good? I paid little attention to Bath last year except when we played them – and he was fairly quiet in both games IIRC.

I have no idea how good he is. I notice he was a junior Wallaby, making up the back row with David Lyons and George Smith. Handy team mates. He was with the Waratahs squad but didn't get a game. Presumably that's why he returned to England. History does show that being let go by the Waratahs is usually a sure sign of outstanding talent ignored.

It’s Catt-Tindall in the middle again – clearly looking for that RWC ‘magic’. Mortlock will not need a full game against them if they play like the first NZ test.

Yes, well, even with Mortlock not match fit, ours is a very different centre combo this time. Giteau is massively more slippery than Flatley, and he plays very low to the ground, so he's hard to barrel. He's literally a second 5/8.

The people you are listening to may know more about Van Gisbergen. I can only go from what I saw and he was the fully when we whacked Wasps at their place I think – it wasn’t impressive.

They may be complete nongs, I don't know. The BBC forum makes for some interesting reading. Amongst the idiots there are some sensible, very knowledgeable posters. They seem to have Clive pretty well pegged.

I was unfair to Regan – his performance last week was perhaps his best. Normally his discipline lets him down. Less so this time (more competition you might claim?)

I was watching him during all the argy bargy. He behaved himself. His first outing, maybe he was shy.

Not that Cozza is a slouch - in fact the way Clive has not used him defeats me (especially after he played Jones)

I've only seen Jones the once. I'm not sure what his role was, apart from a lineout option. He seemed a bit lost in his other job.

He is good value these days. As you say he takes little seriously in the pre-match.

He's also pragmatic. Inscrutable, even. You'll rarely know his true feelings. Clive, OTOH, can't hide his.