Slot Machines

[reds4ever]

..oops!

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by reds4ever


Not in the UK, see



http://www.fairplay-campaign.co.uk/fruit/

Could be different there. Only laws I know are in Quebec (where rigging machine based on previous pulls is illegal).

[KrazyHorse]

Actually, the site you linked says nothing about whether or not the machines have a program which absolutely fixes the ratio of wins to losses via counting.

It simply states that the machine knows ahead of time whether you will win or lose. I said nothing about when the random number is generated, simply that it was truly a pseudorandom number and not one determined by previous pulls.

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse




The only system which would ensure that exactly 70% of the money was returned is the one which takes in 1$ and spits out 70 cents every time. Not very exciting.

In a nutshell thats what its doing, you think that when you've got a '2' on a 'hi-lo', you press 'hi' and the machine comes up with '1' by the laws of probability?

Nope, its decided its past it's 70% return rate so it does someting about it (ie. it 'cheats')

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by reds4ever


Yep, it's just getting to the machine after its 'up', it needs less money to get it's average. I don't think probabilty math has much to do with it?

This is exactly the point of contention.

In fact, according to a link on the site you posted

http://www.gbgb.org.uk/machguide_main.html

listing the code of conduct for machine operators,

5.2 Any feature which creates a series of enriched games, real or apparent, is unacceptable (Board Ruling).

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by reds4ever


In a nutshell thats what its doing, you think that when you've got a '2' on a 'hi-lo', you press 'hi' and the machine comes up with '1' by the laws of probability?

Nope, its decided its past it's 70% return rate so it does someting about it (ie. it 'cheats')

Not true. See the preceding post.

That is not what the site you linked to was contending; it was contending that your win or loss was determined prior to you making a choice on high/low. That's not the same thing.

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

It simply states that the machine knows ahead of time whether you will win or lose. I said nothing about when the random number is generated, simply that it was truly a pseudorandom number and not one determined by previous pulls.

How can it be pseudorandom if the machine knows the result ahead of time?

[KrazyHorse]

The pseudorandomness can be generated ahead of time and used to determine the fate of everybody's spins for the next day, week, month or year.

Let's say we have a simple machine that gives you a choice of high/low. It takes in 1$ and if you win you get 2$.

It has a pseudorandom number generator which creates a list of numbers between 0 and 1. Let's say you're the 754th person to play the machine. You put it your money and gues high or low. In actuality it doesn't matter how you guess because the machine simply looks up the 754th number in its memory. If that number is above 0.6 then you win. If it's below 0.6 then you lose. It then displays an appropriate number to give you the required result.

The pseudorandomness is inside the machine and is not immediately visible to the player. The reason the results are still pseudorandom is that no player without a knowledge of the list of numbers in the computer's memory can make any statement about the chances for a future win based simply on the history of wins.

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Not true. See the preceding post.

That is not what the site you linked to was contending; it was contending that your win or loss was determined prior to you making a choice on high/low. That's not the same thing.

Surely, the mere fact anything but pure probability was involved implies shennagins?

[KrazyHorse]

Not at all. It dpends where you want to see pure probability.

The pure probability exists in the sequence of winning pulls. It doesn't matter whether or not the previous pull won or not.

The pure probability does not exist in the number the computer chooses for high low. You get 70 cents on the dollar on average, no matter how extreme the number you're supposed to guess based on is.

In other words, you have the same chance of winning if you see a two if you guess high as if you guess low.

[KrazyHorse]

And that's why I will never ever bet on a game of pure probability.

[reds4ever]

You've made my head hurt!!!!!!!

[Ming]

I don't know how it is over there... but some basic rules for playing slots in the US.

The larger the coin you have to put in, the higher the machine is set to pay out.

Always play the maximum number of coins per pull the machine will take.

In most casinos, they set the machines near the aisles to pay off higher than the machines buried deep in the rows... they want people to see people winning.

When you win a big pay off, walk away from the machine.

And sure, you can watch for machines that are "due"...

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ming
I don't know how it is over there... but some basic rules for playing slots in the US.

The larger the coin you have to put in, the higher the machine is set to pay out.

True, because the machine is able to take the same amount of money in faster with a lower percentage rake.

Always play the maximum number of coins per pull the machine will take.

Probably the same dynamic as above.

In most casinos, they set the machines near the aisles to pay off higher than the machines buried deep in the rows... they want people to see people winning.

I've heard that too.

When you win a big pay off, walk away from the machine.

And sure, you can watch for machines that are "due"...

I'm pretty sure both of these are untrue.

[KrazyHorse]

That is probably the most persistent myth about slot machines out there.

Some machines may be crooked and guarantee via fixing a certain pattern of payouts and losses, but AFAIK most places have laws that prohibit this type of thing.