Fahrenheit 9/11: THE TRAILER

[Sava]

Originally posted by Defiant
Besides, how about stop spending, the ONE critic I have of Bush is he is spending too much money on crap, cut it out, 10B to Africa, 3B to Israel, these in themselves aren't large but if you add up all the crap, it is monumental. Someone really needs to decifer between the crap and needs and make the cuts.

And we can start by having a president who won't fight unnecessary wars... or a president who won't tolerate companies like Halliburton stealing taxpayer money... or a president who is serious about cutting out corporate tax loops and prosecuting tax evasion.

[Defiant]

Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
Defiant: What did your tax rebate help you do? And more importantly, will that one-time gift help you at all in the long term? And, even more importantly, will it help you enough in the long term that you won't care about your children's education, your social security, your family's health, etc etc etc.

FAB,
It not just a one time, my Fed taxes are lower the four hundred came as a catch up to the previous year, which the tax cuts were instituted. I spent it like a good American to get this country going, like it seems to be.
First of all a child's eduction, what are you referring to, there will always be education, I have one in college, freshman in HS and one in diaper school, I guess I don't get your point here. SS will always be an issue and the sooner we are able to privitize it the better, by law you still put money away, but it is like a 401K instead of letting the gov't handle it for you, not for them to mess with. Health care is the biggest promblem this country is facing, however neither side is coming up with a legit solution, really a moot point against tax cuts.

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Sava
And we can start by having a president who won't fight unnecessary wars... or a president who won't tolerate companies like Halliburton stealing taxpayer money... or a president who is serious about cutting out corporate tax loops and prosecuting tax evasion.

I believe it is a just war and will cost us less in the long run, not only in monies but lives. I have given you my points on this no need to re-iterate again. Haliburton is now under investigation(and any company breaking rules and laws) and I am all for people closing tax loop holes, my opinion that is breaking the law, however I have really never seen any President actively go after it. I would says turn the "DAWGS OF WAR LOOSE"(IRS) with real powers or go to a flat tax with no deductions or loop holes of any sort.

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Sava
yes... god forbid we see tax raises on the top bracket like in 1993 followed by the greatest economic expansion in the history of humanity... did you sleep through the nineties? or was your brain turned to mush by listening to Rush during that time?

It hurts if the expansion is a fasad, NASDAQ going from 5000 to 2000 in a hurry and what did the DOW do, something like 11,000 to 7,000. When you expand to fast or without merit you are setting yourself up for a MARCH 2001. If you can't see that, what is between your ears isn't brain matter.

[Dis]

much of that economic expansion was fuelled by the internet and the general public buying computers like crazy. It eventually peaked as it had to do eventually.

And this boom was independent of the person in office. It just so happened that the tax increases really had no effect on the economy. The american economy was expanding so rapidly, it didn't matter.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Defiant


FAB,
It not just a one time, my Fed taxes are lower the four hundred came as a catch up to the previous year, which the tax cuts were instituted. I spent it like a good American to get this country going, like it seems to be.
First of all a child's eduction, what are you referring to, there will always be education, I have one in college, freshman in HS and one in diaper school, I guess I don't get your point here. SS will always be an issue and the sooner we are able to privitize it the better, by law you still put money away, but it is like a 401K instead of letting the gov't handle it for you, not for them to mess with. Health care is the biggest promblem this country is facing, however neither side is coming up with a legit solution, really a moot point against tax cuts.

1.) You may have spent your 400 like a good American, but do you feel that those who got 40,000 back did the same? If you do, you're severly shoving your head in the sand. They get their money back and we suffer because less money is able to go around to all the important programs that taxes support.

2.) You completely misunderstand the education issues, maybe sand in your eyes. I know education will always be there. That's not the issue...the issue is the QUALITY of the education. Having been through the Wisconsin education system, where we went to school in a decrepit building whose classrooms were really one large room with deviders, unsafe playgrounds, teachers fired consistently for not being up to par, and had an art room in the basement bathroom, I know what lack of education funding can do. Having then moved to Massachusetts and gone through that system, I know the difference of the two.

A lack of education funding is horrible for your kids and my kids. Greed for a small tax break only leads to a poorer education, fewer opportunities, and a public that, wouldn't you know it, sticks its head in the sand.

[Defiant]

Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous


1.) You may have spent your 400 like a good American, but do you feel that those who got 40,000 back did the same? If you do, you're severly shoving your head in the sand. They get their money back and we suffer because less money is able to go around to all the important programs that taxes support.

2.) You completely misunderstand the education issues, maybe sand in your eyes. I know education will always be there. That's not the issue...the issue is the QUALITY of the education. Having been through the Wisconsin education system, where we went to school in a decrepit building whose classrooms were really one large room with deviders, unsafe playgrounds, teachers fired consistently for not being up to par, and had an art room in the basement bathroom, I know what lack of education funding can do. Having then moved to Massachusetts and gone through that system, I know the difference of the two.

A lack of education funding is horrible for your kids and my kids. Greed for a small tax break only leads to a poorer education, fewer opportunities, and a public that, wouldn't you know it, sticks its head in the sand.

That is probably the most incorrect statement I have heard, I am from Wisconsin(central), attended the always 1, 2 or 3 highest populated school in the state and then on to a University here and the education is not lacking in way or form that I see. Besides, as well as you know HS and below is mostly funded by your property taxes with Fed grants.
YES, I believe most did spend their money and fueled with low interest rates, many refinanced their homes to a 15 year or lower so in the years to come a good portion will own their home and be able to spend more money to the economy instead of paying mortgages for the other would be 15 years on a 30 mortgage.
It looks like to me as soon as you got to MASS your head went into the sand, or are you natually a gloom and doomer.

What exactly are the important programs? I sure as hell see a lot of wasted money in our school system that could be diverted to more positive programs or lowering of the property taxes.

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Dissident
much of that economic expansion was fuelled by the internet and the general public buying computers like crazy. It eventually peaked as it had to do eventually.

And this boom was independent of the person in office. It just so happened that the tax increases really had no effect on the economy. The american economy was expanding so rapidly, it didn't matter.

All that was important with those companies were sales not profits which eventually bursted the bubble in March of 2001.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

You obviously went to school at a different time. When I was in school in Wisconsin for 5 years, it was disgusting how underfunded we were. You can't tell me that we weren't, because we were. My parents were so sick of it that my mom ran for (and got elected to) the school board simply so that we could find ways first-hand to help the schools including asking the government for more funding.

I am no "gloom and doomer", simply because I've seen first hand what better funding for education actually does

[DinoDoc]

The intellectual worth of the movie is shown by the fact that it contains willful distortions in both the trailer and movie itself.

[JohnT]

Hell, the entire "censorship" controversy was itself a willful distortion. You expect any better from MM?

[DinoDoc]

Not really. It was meant as bait for Sava.

[Sava]

Defiant... I'm talking about Real GDP figures... not the Dow Jones or Nasdaq.

from Economic History Services: http://eh.net/hmit/gdp/gdp_answer.php

(in billions)
1980 $5,161
1981 $5,291
1982 $5,189
1983 $5,423
1984 $5,813
1985 $6,053
1986 $6,263
1987 $6,475
1988 $6,742
1989 $6,981
1990 $7,112
1991 $7,100
1992 $7,336
1993 $7,532
1994 $7,835
1995 $8,031
1996 $8,328
1997 $8,703
1998 $9,066
1999 $9,470
2000 $9,817
2001 $9,866
2002 $10,080

From 1993 to 2000 (the Clinton years) Real GDP grew from $7.532 trillion to $9.817 trillion. A growth of $2.285 trillion... the largest growth in an 8 year period of GDP in the history of mankind. The Reagan years, as you can see, saw about $1.5 trillion in Real GDP growth. Note that after 1981 (and the massive tax cuts) the GDP SHRUNK! Also note that GDP growth slowed after 2000. The first year of the Bush presidency (when the recession started in MARCH of 2001, so Bush didn't "inherit" a recession), saw slow, but not negative growth. So your "burst bubble" theory is more about the stock market. The GDP, not the stock market, is the number to look at when talking about the economy.

I'm available to educate you further if necessary.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Not really. It was meant as bait for Sava.

Ahhh. Have fun!

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Defiant


I believe it is a just war and will cost us less in the long run, not only in monies but lives.

i see. so not fighting a war results in more dead people and money spent. i would have never thought that! please educate me more in right wing ignorance oh great one.